When some people say“ hey, I acknowledge extremists are bad, but what is wrong with going to church to volunteer,  give to the needy, help the community“ what do you all say?   just wondering

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Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on November 19, 2012 at 12:06pm
Comment by david garcia on November 19, 2012 at 1:19pm

@ liz ; right we can morals and we can give / volunteer without religion. I agree .. we really don’t need religion for anything that I could think of…. But  I have people that say … hey as long as they are not hurting anyone .. then let them worship a rock…….

I agree that religion has impeded human progress and has tortured and oppressed people  and in many ways it is evil.. but if a moderate says I want to worship a rock I  am not trying to convert anyone or hurting anyone… why cant I worship my rock on Sundays… (this is a real argument) what do we say to that

Comment by Emperor Milos on November 19, 2012 at 1:39pm

but if a moderate says I want to worship a rock I  am not trying to convert anyone or hurting anyone… why cant I worship my rock on Sundays… (this is a real argument) what do we say to that

Why can't adults believe in Santa Clause on Christmas? Why do we have to tell children that the Easter Bunny is not real. It doesn't really hurt anyone, so why do we do it?

Also, as a moderate, and being aware of the extremes that religion promotes in certain circles, by simply choosing to ignore those things, because you aren't personally throwing acid in a child's face because she looked at a boy, or refusing a woman abortion, full well knowing that she and the baby will die, your hands aren't exactly clean either.

Just because you don't participate in your religion's extremes, doesn't mean that your indifference is not harmful to anyone.

For example, I grew up in Serbia during the early years of the Balkan War. I was a child at the time, and was not very familiar with what was happening aside from what I heard from the media and the adults around me.

To me, at the time, Croats were all evil, and the Serbian military was great, because they were defending my homeland.

But after growing up, and listening to different points of view, and having access to more broad information on the war, and the parties involved, I will argue against any Serb who agrees with the genocides that took place. I couldn't say anything when it was happening, because I was far too young and uninformed (misinformed), but now, that I have a voice, and evidence to back it up, I speak against the Balkan War whenever the topic comes up with my relatives, or any Serbian friends I have.

Comment by Tracey on November 19, 2012 at 3:33pm

@ Sarah.There are multiple atheisim based and secular organisations. Many have been listed here.

I also own, and operate such an establishment myself and have been doing so since 2007, dealing  specifically with homelessness, unemployment, poverty and basically human NEED. I am currently working on expanding this to the USA, where unfortunately, all of the above issues are rife, DESPITE the fact there are religious homeless shelters, soup kitchens..etc.. I wonder to myself, IF these religious organisations TRULY "work" to end these issues, why is it that the intention seems to be KEEPING the people going through the trials and tribulations associated with their situation, DOWN? Shoving a meal in someone's face and "praying" for them is not a solution to the issue. A temporary bed for a week and then you are back on the streets is NO solution either. Although it keeps those down and out coming back, over and over. The only ones this cycle really "helps" are these religious charities.

 The work we do however, helps people with their lives, it creates opportunities, it helps give them one fundamental thing back THEIR SELF RESPECT. We find them permanent housing, help them with budgeting, retrain them so they can be gainfully employed again, if of course they cannot find work in their former career path. We help break this dividing line between the "haves" and "have nots".  I actually desire it to get to a point where homelessness and poverty is not an issue anymore.. so basically.... my aim is to put MYSELF out of business with this work.


Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on November 19, 2012 at 4:25pm

Here is a link to an Irish site called Good without Gods. The frist one Kiva is great.

Comment by Ron V on November 19, 2012 at 6:30pm

Again, it's not helping that's the issue, it's all the other nonsense- http://www.atheistrev.com/2009/11/whats-so-bad-about-religion.html?m=1

I think this article provides some answers to your question.

Comment by Obfuskation on November 19, 2012 at 10:39pm

Good and generous people do good and generous things.  If they are religious, then many of them use religion as a vehicle for their natural tendencies.  If they were to leave religion behind, they would still do those things.

What's wrong with throwing some worship X's way?  Because, X doesn't exist, and it would be a waste of my time to fake believing in a poorly crafted fairy tale. 

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 20, 2012 at 2:51pm


Bam! Well, I think you took this question, rolled it up and smoked it.

- kk

Comment by Tracey on November 20, 2012 at 4:59pm

@ Nate Lundgren,

That is exactly it! They do ZIP and that is the cycle that does NEED to be broken.  Religion promotes the idea of co-dependence..to  it's "god" and therefore in turn,  its claimed "charitable works" all done in the NAME of this "god".


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