Comment by Jay Catt on December 12, 2009 at 10:23pm

Here's something I'm suspicious of.... OPEC,, I wonder if they'd apprieciate alternitive fuels really taking off. I wonder how covertly they would participate in the nay sayers propaganda machine. Also. The US has a BIG interest in keeping the fossil fuel trade preformed using th us dollar as the currency.
Anyone think I'm way off track?

Comment by B. on December 13, 2009 at 1:42am

I have a lot of primary literature on the topic. I'm not an expert, but I can probably answer a number of your questions right away if you want to message me directly. I've taken a few classes on the subject (one of which I just completed the final exam on Wednesday, so my brain is still at it's peak with all the facts & figures) and was previously skeptical, though never an outright denier, myself.

As a scientist that's been forced to handle the data first hand (ie. using convoluted calculus to calculate the steady state concentrations of every damn chemical in the air at every stupid distance from the earth), I can assure you, it's not a hoax. It's a real big mess that is entirely our fault and the only option we have is to try to soften the blow.

Comment by Jay Catt on December 13, 2009 at 2:45am

Thank you B. (hoax...oy vey)

Comment by B. on December 13, 2009 at 11:54am

Chances are we won't be able to heal the environmental damage we've caused (our actions will reverberate through time for MILLENIA), and there are far worse consequences than genetic abnormalities. Namely, entire species driven to extinction, and the millions that will follow (the rate is currently over 200 species/day).

Comment by Paul Carlton on December 13, 2009 at 6:11pm

Well thank you very much B. Message will be sent shortly. What's the latest information on the subject? Any links to the data

I just watched this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59P0AIcUoh8

Marc seems like he's more of a scare tactician here. Why is America so anti global warming? Because god gave us the earth, therefor we can do anything and pillage it for our own purposes?

Comment by B. on December 13, 2009 at 7:04pm

The Global Carbon Budget of 2008 was released released recently. I don't have the full report, only some of the data my prof thought was most significant. I have some of the 2009 one as well, but since the year isn't over yet, it hasn't been finalized. 2009 was actually lower than 2008 because the recession damaged the USA so much lol CO2 output is very strongly correlated to GDP so there was a decrease for this year. I'm sure ALL of the global-warming deniers are going to bring that up in the near future (so don't be mislead!).

As far as data goes, it gets very specific in the scientific community. Every climate change scientist has their own little niche, so primary literature is generally narrow (ie. they'll discuss the response of one type of species in one region to 1-2 degree temperature increase). If you want broad conclusions, it's best to seek either review papers (though these can be narrow also) or official reports from government (though these are never as recent as they should be and can omit some very startling facts). Furthermore, Global Warming on its own is not always the culprit alone, often what causes global warming in the first place is wreaking havoc on ecosystems by itself (eg. species habitat loss is not necessarily from warming, but because of land-use change that causes warming.. though some species are genuinely fucked by increased temperature, mainly S. American frogs..)

America is anti-Global Warming because it's primarily their fault. The USA has the highest per capita output of CO2 and they're the greatest importer from China who is the greatest exporter -- so even when we try to blame China & India for leading CO2 output, it wouldn't be that way if the USA wasn't buying it. Over-consumption & destruction is part of American culture. They're anti-Global Warming because it would cramp their style.

Comment by Paul Carlton on December 13, 2009 at 8:08pm

Haha! That's a good point there. Freaking america, over consumption is definitely a problem here. Our economy seems less oriented towards innovation (except in maybe the internets... google for example) and focused on high consumption. Well I'm going to keep my eyes open and listen.

What countries seem to be most receptive to global warming?

Comment by B. on December 14, 2009 at 12:30am

Europe! Denmark, UK, Sweden -- all adapting green energy on a large scale. Most of Europe has steadied their output and many are bringing it down.

Comment by Reggie on December 14, 2009 at 11:39pm

I highly reccomend a book on historical (and pre-historical) climate change by Chris Turney called Ice, Mud, and Blood. A lot of it is about what we know of past climates and how we know it. If you are interested in the science and how these things have been worked out, you will like this book. It also gives you some perspective on current change that people try to say is normal, cyclical changes.

Another resource I find myself returning to is a couple of YouTube channels that do more about debunking denialists. But, their science seems sound and well researched.



Of course, this is mostly stuff for the layperson to sink their teeth into.

Comment by James A on December 15, 2009 at 12:28am

I like this site

http://www.realclimate.org/

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