So after my very interesting Debate with a friend of mines relative i somewhat analyzed the situation i was in and figured out a decent way to debate without actually discouraging them to open their minds a bit.

Typical Theists are thought to keep a straight mind towards their beliefs and in most cases ignore or falsely debunk outside information. This is their defense. When they start throwing pascal's wager or the challenge of, or anything similar to, "You haven't read the bible so you wouldn't know" or "You have to have faith in the bible otherwise you will not understand it." At this point you may consider the debate ended for their defenses are up and anything said afterwards will not only be ignored, but if you seem to be very intrusive and "violent" such as challenging their belief and faith, or throwing out stereotypes/name calling/other inconsistencies with the topic. At this point you've ruined the whole point of the conversation.

The point:
It is not to convert anyone to Atheism, it is not to Challenge the faith or belief of another person. It is to get them to start thinking. To them we are the closed minded and irrational ones because we do not take into account the bible and their faith. Whilst they are really the closed minded because they do take in the bible and such faith:
The bible tells them to NOT QUESTION the word of God.
The idea of Faith is to BELIEVE IN GOD no matter the lack of proof or what anyone else says.

In a simple definition the ability to be open minded is to ask question, to wonder outside of the box, to really be curious. But in the word of the Bible, being Curious and Asking questions is equivalent as to eating the fruit of knowledge. STAY AWAY FROM THE BIBLE AND FAITH. If they start coming out with such nonsense as "The bible is true because its Gods word" Simply say something in the lines of "I'm sorry but thats circular logic and it has no say or connection with the topic at hand." and simply end it there.
Ending it there is more effective than beginning a whole new pre-emptive attack on their faith because at this point they realize they have nothing else to counter with but that. If you continue to argue beyond this point they will most likely begin to see you as arsinine and start completely ignoring the whole debate so everything you have debated thus far is now null and void.

The idea of the debate is to be the one interested in it. To not come out as your attacking them, or their faith (which really you shouldn't be) your there to help clear up inconsistencies with their proof "against" evolution and science (which 100% is from false data or biased ideas). You should be interested in what they say because your there to clear things up.

Let me start by saying that if you have no comfort with debating on the subject of Biology, Evolution, Chemistry, maybe even Physics (for some more advanced perceptions) then you should by all means NOT debate, because it will show your ignorance if you have no knowledge of this, and all they will think is "Wow this Atheist is stupid, thats why they don't believe in God." This improves their own morale on the subject of debate even for the future. And is likely to come up in defensive measure just alongside the Circular Logic and Pascal's wager, and you'll just make it harder for the real debates later on in life.

In either case. This method simply opens the mind, even a tiny gap for future events. Such as if they open a science book and start reading on biology and evolution.
If you did this debate right they will hopefully think:
"Well, let me at least understand this, or read a little so i know more even if it is for my own purpose against evolution"
If you did it wrong it will most likely be...
"Hah! Evolution! right, this is dumb, theres no point in even reading it, i've seen the people that believe in this crap!"

In a certain sense.
Now even if they read biology and evolution for their own gain AGAINST evolution and science, this doesn't mean bad, in fact its GOOD. They now start to understand the idea of Biology and Evolution. The only idea left to clear up is the misguided information they gain off the internet from biased sources that attempt to use biological theories to disprove evolution against itself.
e.g
In my blog about the debate i had she tried to disprove evolution by pointing out that Carbon 14 dating is not at all accurate as the data from a obvious dinosaur like creature was dated to 16,000 years rather than the usual estimation of billions of years. This to her is proof against science. But with research we see that carbon 14 dating is only useful in a 60,000 year range because the half life of carbon is 5700 years, it is described fully in my other blog. Whoever had dated that dinosaur was obviously using the wrong method for dating, and because u cant find the date of a fraction of an carbon atom it gave a false positive. In either case a little research helped me overthrow her biased false "proof" against evolution. You will most likely encounter a lot of this since there are so many dedicated poorly thought theist biologists trying to disprove evolution with flimsy information just as the one before.

Again you have to keep in mind that theists are high on defense, they have been built from childhood to not question their faith, and the bible. If one begins to be too rash on them they will quickly withdraw to the methods they have been thought. Usually something like these:
-"The Bible is true because its the word of God."
-"You'd have to experience what i have experienced to believe in God." (i've used this one plenty of times in my youth)
-"Well my faith tells me that God is there and watching over us."
-"You argue with science which i can't understand too much, but I argue with Faith which you can't understand because your closed minded."
-"What do you have to lose if you believe in God? You get a free ticket to heaven!"
-"Theories are false because they always change! you can't believe scientists because they always change their mind, however God has his plan and he's sticking to it!"
-"Atheism is a religion like anything else, you have to have Faith in science in order to be sure that its really like this."
Etc.

These are on the top of my head, if you've experienced any of these sort of comments please post.


Now again, if you reach a point where the theist mentions one of these arguements, just pull back and do not agrivate them for your next bits of actions can completely erase everything you've done so far. Maybe you can come back to them later on and challenge them again (subconsciously, not up front).

Views: 5

Tags: Debating, bible, circular, evolution, information, logic, pascals, strategy, theists, wager

Comment by Joann Brady on November 16, 2009 at 8:12pm
I find it extremely difficult to have that much patience with thiests and I always end up lissing them off.......They get pissed when I do not accept "nature" as proof of god, and other nonsense. Then of course, I get cranky too.
Comment by Theresa on December 13, 2009 at 8:38pm
=) Awesome blog. I want to see the rest. XD

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