The other day my fiance came home from work and was telling me about her day. She mentioned that toward of the day a coworker (floater) and herself were were talking and religion was alluded to slightly. That's when this conversation occurred...

Coworker: So, what would I need to do to get you back on our side? (Christian) You already know the Bible really well. (Fiance helped teach Sunday school years ago)

Fiance: Well, I'm really devoted to my God and Goddess and it works for me. (Wiccan)

Coworker: But your so nice and know so much. You'd make a great Christian.

Fiance: No thanks. The more I learned, the more I could see that it wasn't for me. Anyway, I'm happy where I am.

Coworker: What about eternity? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Fiance: Oh, we don't believe in Heaven or Hell. I believe in reincarnation.

Coworker: How does that work?

Fiance: Well, when you die your soul leaves your body and enters a new one.

Coworker: Well, that doesn't make sense to me.

Fiance: ...

Coworker: What about your fiance? Surely your worried of being separated.

Fiance: Oh he's an Athiest.

Coworker: ...

Fiance: He is very logic, science and evidence based.

Coworker: What would it take to convert him?

Fiance: Oh, God would probably have to appear before him, perform amazing acts and tell him this is how you have to live your life.

Coworker: Oh...

And then it was time to go. After she told me this story a few thoughts crossed my mind. 1). She was so very nice to get her off her back and do so as nicely as possible. 2). Why do I never get to have any of the fun? I have yet to find myself in a situation where I can have a debate with a Theist. The closest was a few weeks ago. The phone rang and my mom got it. They mentioned they were from a charity I donated to in the past. I talked to them and after I was finished my dad asked who it was. My mom then said, "it's probably one of his Atheist things" (with a little attitude). I then replied that, "It was actually the Defenders of Wildlife Foundation. I am concerned with the well being of of wildlife, and being an Atheist, I know that my species IS NOT the center of the universe." That actually worked quite well, and a received a look that said, "I can think of no reply to that." Surprisingly my dad responded with the simple reply of, "ooh, nice one". lol 3). And finally I asked myself, "How would I have answered the coworkers questions?"

Q: You know the Bible so well.
A: Knowing the Bible is a part of why I don't believe the Bible.

Q: But you're so nice.
A: Proof positive that what you hear said about depressed and angry Atheists is not true.

Q: What would it take to convert you?
A: Here I have to correct my fiance. If it were to be scientifically proven that God exists, then I would believe he exists. If he came to me and proved he was real, I would believe he exists. But this would not convert me to Christianity. Existence alone would not warrant worship for me. For me to become Christian, God would have to come to me,convince me he is God, and also convince me that he had nothing to do with the Bible. Tell me all the horrible, contradicting, twisted, offensive, bigoted, sexist, racist, etc parts of the Bible are a bunch of BS. That he is and always has been a loving, forgiving God and always will be. That would at the very least open the possibility of being a Christian again to me.

Without that assurance I would do one of two things. Admit there's a God, but be a Humanist. Or realize that the same lack of evidence that the Christian God has overcome could , hypothetically, be applied to 'rival gods'. So rather than jumping the gun, I would re-evaluate those again as well.

This need for her to convert raises a few questions in me. 1). Why this need to bolster you numbers and pull from 'rivals'. It makes it all seem more like a silly club than anything serious. Sure I may want to deconvert some, but would never be proactive in it. If they want to try and convert me, I will defend my beliefs and return the favor. But to try to convert me out of the blue, just seems rude to me. Now trying to convert Atheist... 2). The Bible says that blasphemy is the sole unforgivable sin. So to be an Atheist, I maintain that there is no God. So by their own book, I can't EVER be saved. So why bother? 3). Also a large number of us see the evils of the Bible and condemn the God character as the monster he's presented as. So why do they think that proving God to be real would may us convert? Are they following out of simple fear? Is following a monster out of fear really more respectable than not following BECAUSE he's a monster? I'd argue that I'm the one with better morals in that case.

So yes, I wish I was there for this conversation and it never fails to amaze me how little thought/logic is put in to these attempts at proselytizing.

Views: 14

Tags: convert, god, morals, questions

Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on July 4, 2009 at 1:05pm
I dunno, man. I'm kind of a sell out. If the god of the Bible did appear and assure me I'd burn in everlasting suffering if I didn't worship him, I'd fucking worship him.
I mean, you don't have to love something to light candles and burn oxes or goats to it, right? You don't even have to agree with it or like it. Just kill your cows, give up bacon and go to happy cloud land forever and ever after you die.
I'd still think he was a dick, but at least I wouldn't be tortured for infinity.
Comment by MikeTheInfidel on July 4, 2009 at 2:50pm
If the Biblical god existed, it would be difficult for me not to hedge my bets as to which parts of the Bible I would believe. Acknowledging the existence of a magical space wizard makes it possible for it to all be true, regardless of how irrational it is. So I'd be willing to bet that no, you couldn't really fake it. But I still wouldn't worship him.
Comment by CJoe on July 4, 2009 at 2:50pm
Well Misty... actually, you DO have to love him. Ya hafta do a little brainwashing of thine self in order to be truly "saved". You have to believe Him when he says "God is love" even though you think He's a complete a** hole. Cain sacrificed to God, but it wasn't good enough because his motives weren't "pure". There are a lot of stories like that in the Bible. Yo, God knows your heart... and you have to think He's the sh*t to get into those pearly gates...

I don't make the rules. I just ignore them... ;)
Comment by Reggie on July 4, 2009 at 4:57pm
I hear that Hell is actually a wonderful place. Probably why the xtians don't want anyone to go there. Why be happy and have fun when instead you can live out Sunday worship for eternity? Come to think of it, I suspect they have mislabeled these two places!
Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on July 4, 2009 at 5:02pm
Alright... if hell doesn't suck, I'm in.
But if it's all fire and agony and shit, that just doesn't work for me.
CC- That makes no sense at all. We can't just decide to love someone. It's not a controlled response. If god is love, then shouldn't he be in charge of who I love? If I don't love him, that's got to be some type of negligence on his part.. not mine.
Comment by CJoe on July 4, 2009 at 5:50pm
Hey, you and I know this, buuut... those are the rules. I mean, this is why we think religion is stupid, right? It's circular reasoning combined with contradictions, wishful thinking and plain ignorance. Ever read 1984 by George Orwell? It's kinda like that.
Comment by Jeremy Roney on July 4, 2009 at 6:31pm
Even if a god appeared in front of me in a puff of smoke and told me I needed to worship it, I'd still be quite skeptical. Just because I don't understand how it occured doesn't mean its supernatural or anything. For those Star Trek fans, it'd probably look a lot like that episode were "God" tries to take the Enterprise and Kirk asks what God wants with a starship.. but hopefully minus the burning hole in the stomach.
Comment by James on July 4, 2009 at 10:54pm
Lets not forget that it is stated in the Bible that Blasphemy is an unforgivable sin. So even if God were to come to us and prove he's real, he would NOT be willing to forgive us for disbelieving. Even if we were to say sorry and start worshiping him, it would do no good.

Thanks 'the_alias'. She is a smart cookie, and I can understand her taking a safe approach at work. It's funny though; should we both ever be in a debate with a Christian together, I think they would wish they hadn't. I am the science/logic/historical inaccuracy guy and she has a good bit of logic and a deep knowledge of the pagan origins of the majority of Christian practices and holidays. An Atheist/Wiccan relationship might look difficult on the surface, but we complement each other very well, work well together and there's that love factor you can't replace. :)
Comment by Dave G on July 6, 2009 at 12:31pm
Sounds like your fiancée handled it quite nicely, James.

I agree with you, even if God (the Abrahamic one of the Bible, OT and NT) were to conclusively prove his existence to me, that does not mean that I would follow or worship him. In fact, I would consider it a moral imperative to oppose such a being. Not that I'd be allowed into the 'beloved follower' camp anyhow, having committed the only unforgivable sin by denying the holy spirit.

As for the urgency to convert, I can see two main reasons for that. First, the whole 'fishers of men' bit does make evangelizing and preaching, and thus converting, a major goal for believers. And second, if they really, truly believe that such a 'nice' person is going to be tortured for all eternity for not believing, it would be inhuman of them not to try to save them from that fate. The second type I don't mind that much, because at least they care, within their own worldview. The first one is just annoying, though.

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