Comment by Altis Fosteson on January 6, 2010 at 2:11am

Thanks. Yeah. Don't know what to do bout the freaks... in my mind, I have better things to do then stand outside of an abortion clinic or a gay club ranting and raving about hellfire and brimstone. In a biblical sense, I am a fanatic, I follow the Bible strictly. But Jesus said, He who is without sin, cast the first stone. Some Christians need to take a lesson from that and find a better way to spend their time then making the normal ones look bad. Ah well. What can ya do.

Comment by Altis Fosteson on January 6, 2010 at 2:46am

I attack the scientific method when it needs to be attacked just as you attack the religious world when it needs to be, rightfully so at times.

Hate is a strong word. Rather, you hate religion, I doubt many atheists would ever say they hate us, or God for that matter. Also, you dislike the hypocrites, as I equally dislike them. What I understand, is that you hate the oppression, the violence, the chaos, the insanity that goes along with it. Again, rightfully so. Catholicism has been one of the most bloodthirsty religions of all time, now we have Islam stepping up to the plate. Yeehaw.

I'll shorten the gap between us, many more posts to come, as intellectual as religiously possible. If that makes sense....

Comment by Altis Fosteson on January 6, 2010 at 2:50am

I think that atheists read the Bible to find it's "faults"(just my experience) whereas Christians attempt to read it for it's truths. But I agree with you Zak many things are off in the Bible or can seem contradicting, which is why I am determined to learn the Hebrew texts. It is absolutely amazing how much more accurate they are with far less contradictions and words that fit far better, i.e. YOM.

Comment by Veritas on January 6, 2010 at 3:44am

The Hebrew word for day (yom) can have several different meanings. The meaning is clear when read in context that is was in fact 6 days. As the word (yom) is used many times later that can only mean 24 hour days.
The first reference in the creation account is in the context of a 24 hour cycle of light and dark, “And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day” (something mention after every creation.)
We understand that Genesis is describing six Earth rotations, not an unspecified period of thousands/millions/billions of years with thousands/millions/billions of rotations.

Comment by Altis Fosteson on January 6, 2010 at 3:58am

Excuse me Jeff, not the scientific METHOD, but rather science in general. Don't get me wrong, I think science is great, lots of amazing things, in fact I love science, but there are just some things where it gets silly. I'll use the big bang as an example. The big bang theory is something that has been revised time and time again, added to, adjusted, changed... because eventually it stops making sense, so they have to make it sound better to people. Let's face it, the Big Bang Theory is what we call God. If matter can neither be created or destroyed according to science, then the Big Bang Theory is... what's this!?... a contradiction to the laws science.

Good for you Zak. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what scriptures you refer as falsehoods? I always enjoy a challenge. I've never met an atheist who could convince me of any scripture being a falsehood, conversations have ended in stalemates certainly, but I've never been convinced. Either way would make for a good blog post for me to do at some point, to address some of the common arguments.

Comment by Altis Fosteson on January 6, 2010 at 4:03am

Well Veritas, since YOM has several meanings it seems presumptuous to assume that the meaning they are referring to is one day. Just because it is specified that days, in the literal sense existed, light/dark, morning/evening doesn't necessarily mean that the word YOM isn't being used to express an era of time as opposed to a literal 24 hour time frame. So... I disagree with you, I'll go talk to a few Jewish Rabbi's and see what they have to say, cause let's face it, their interpretation is going to be the best. It's their language. Until then I'm sticking to era.

Comment by Aric on January 6, 2010 at 4:05am

I disagree with your statement that most atheists read the bible to find faults. I think that most atheists, just like most christians, don't read the bible. Admittedly, I have never read the bible. I have certainly tried on numerous occasions, but it was just too terribly boring and the bits that I have read really turned me off of the whole book. Of the atheists who have read the bible, I think that many of them began reading the bible when they still believed in a god. It was only when they began reading the bible that they began to question the existence of god.
The scientific method never needs to be attacked. Scientists who do not follow the scientific method deserve to be attacked (I probably shouldn't have to say this, but I do not mean physically attacked). People who try to pass off New Age flim flam as science deserve to be attacked (Again, not physically). However, the scientific method doesn't change. Without the scientific method, experiments would not be demonstrably repeatable.
We as atheists do not automatically hate you simply because you do not believe the same thing as us (If that is what you truly think then I believe you have us confused with religious extremists). Although, assuming that we all hate you because we are atheists and then criticizing us for grouping all christians together does make us, or at least me, consider you to be a hypocrite. Ending your post by calling us "jerks" doesn't help either.

Comment by Altis Fosteson on January 6, 2010 at 4:21am

Aric, if you'd read everything in entirety, you would have seen I corrected myself in saying NOT the scientific method, but rather science in general. Also, calling you jerks was more of a joke then anything, same goes with the hate statement(again if you'd read this thread in it's entirety you would see that it was addressed earlier). However I do agree with you that a LOT of Christians do not read the Bible, which is sad. I commend you for admitting that you've read the Bible minimally, I've had a lot of atheists attack me who clearly had 0 knowledge of it yet claimed to be experts.

Jeff, the Big Bang Theory is the creation of the Universe supposedly. What I am saying... is that science tells us matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Even energy, or light, contains matter on a very basic level. So if matter can neither be created nor destroyed, where did the matter come from to create the universe? Evolution? Life? Etc. I'm saying that the Big Bang Theory, used to explain how the Universe was created, is a pretty weak explanation. Also, you are misreading what I said, I'm comparing the Big Bang Theory to God in the sense that in my mind, the Big Bang Theory is equally ridiculous as God is to you. THAT is what I mean, not God IS the Big Bang Theory, geez.

Seriously though, ya'll are awesome, I love a good fight.

Comment by Aric on January 6, 2010 at 4:43am

Yeah, I saw your response about the scientific method after I posted my comment. It hadn't yet been posted when I opened the page. I probably should have refreshed the page before posting my comment to see if there had been any more responses but I didn't. As for your response to the hate statement, I did see it, but I still felt that I should mention it.

Comment by S S Tragus on January 6, 2010 at 6:19am

Most of the truths in the bible are truisms found elsewhere -- what goes around comes around or reap what you sow, do unto others as you would have them do unto you or its inverse, love conquers all, etc.. The danger, as we keep pointing out on this forum, is that so many adherents, with reason, as the bible itself claims and insists on such, read the book as infallible, as universal, as Truth.

I think what you, Altis, need to know, is that many of us here were once religious. Many of us were once Christian. I was raised in a very conservative church, attended church twice on Sunday, once on Wednesday, and then, after 12, on Friday night as well for youth night. And I studied the bible extensively. Even after I left the church I was brought up in, having found it far too limiting and inconsistent, I continued to search, this time for larger, more universal, more ecumenical, interdenominational, inter-religious Truth.

More on this later... have to run off to work :-(}}}

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