Comment by Reggie on October 17, 2009 at 11:15pm

Some really good points in there.

Comment by Morgan Matthew on October 18, 2009 at 3:10am

"Killed in Africa by Evangelical Christians"... Just kills me!

Comment by a7 on October 18, 2009 at 9:37am

Nice blog man.

Is there no pressure that can be put onto the catholic church by say the World Health Org or any nother body.

George

Comment by Leo on October 20, 2009 at 5:30am

"Christians. Stay out of developing countries with your message."

Easy and comfortable for you to say as a member of the most spoiled, well fed, and housed society existing on the planet.

How many houses have you built in Central America, how many medical supplies have you provided, how many vaccines have you given, how many kids have you taught how to read or write during your summers? Spend some time trying to help people in a country where the annual per capita income is less than what a kid can make here part time in a couple of weeks at McDonald's. If you have, my apologies, but the story and your post are just more of the "bad news sells more papers" tripe.

Yes, missionaries teach the Gospel of Christ, but vast majority of the time is spent serving the people who live there not giving them a "sign here or else" message. Christians are tasked to do more than just provide lip service in their service to Christ.

And I guess we shouldn't think about the fact that children are already killed and abused in these countries, with or without the message of Christ. No, better for us not to think about it at all and just keep our meddling imperialist coffers closed and our hands on the remote. Here you go kid, have a condom and a nice life. Don't worry about that dysentery, you'll get rid of it one way or another. Yes, now that I think about it, it would be a lot easier and conflict free to sit at home watching House reruns. Thanks.



Hate, ignorance, and death are already in these places - no one has to bring it in.

Comment by Reggie on October 20, 2009 at 10:19am

Leo! Always good to see that you are still about.

"Hate, ignorance, and death are already in these places - no one has to bring it in."

Well, I really think that if Africa had not been colonized and plundered by Europeans, then the massive amount of strife seen in modern Africa would not be with us today. Admittedly, I am no expert on this subject, but it is something that I plan on studying in the next few years. And while some might point out that the colonialists were mostly Christian men, I would think it a mistake to blame religion when it was simply greed and the ability to dominate that led to African tribes being driven from their cultures and villages into city centers that they were ill-adapted for.

But on the subject at hand, it is all to easy to start pointing fingers everywhere else in order to distract from this specific matter. And to imply that secular organizations do nothing for Africans is absurd. As is the strawman example of "here you go kid, have a condom and a nice life. Don't worry about that dysentery". Why a kid? What about the millions of adults who contract diseases and die every year, leaving orphans to languish in camps or worse? The Pope explicitly preaching that condoms causes disease was the single most morally reprehensible act I have witnessed in quite awhile. Not only was it an assault on reality and science, it was literally a grave disservice to Africans that follow Catholic creeds. And for what? All in the name of God? It is better to suffer and die than have sex? Twisted logic, I say.

Comment by Gaytor on October 20, 2009 at 10:34am

Christians. Stay out of developing countries with your message.

If Christians are compelled to do the good in a country, that's great. Keep your message at home. You can't foresee how that will play out in a different culture. I've given two examples in Africa before. So let's see it in another. You like Central America? Off we go.

In Nicaragua Abortion was made illegal. What could those results possibly be?
Nearly 90 women have died in Nicaragua as a direct or indirect result of the repeal, one year ago... Lobbied by the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church and conservative evangelical pastors, on Oct. 26, 2006 the Nicaraguan parliament approved the draft law to revoke article 165 of the criminal code, which had permitted abortion for medical reasons since 1893 Link

This is what happens when people meddle in other cultures. With these developing countries that really don't understand how the world got here or how science works, you should try to see what they see. You can't figure out how to get clean water, but they flew in on a plane, got you the clean water, then they tell you about god and how the world was created. You just might believe that they are correct. As a result you'll listen to their words. Abortion is wrong in all cases, kill the witches, thoughts and words that have consequences. The message of Jesus doesn't need to be shared. The damage resulting can be greater and less just than good you did. So what have you brought. Doing the good and patting yourself on the back doesn't seek what have been the results of your interaction. All three of my examples show that implicitly.

So what have I done. Nothing outside of paying my taxes. We average around 30 billion a year in foreign aid in the US. That would happen with or without my interaction. But there is a point to be made here. When the US or UN deliver aid, they don't bring a culture altering message. They bring the food and the technology then they get out (unless there are natural resources to plunder).

The Gates Foundation (atheist) is seeking better agricultural techniques largely in Africa. They don't bring the message of the mystical, they bring science. As a result they don't cause deaths, they bring the potential to further life.

The lack of cultural understanding all over the world creates monsters that we can't handle. eg "Why don't many Islamic countries want freedom?" If we sit there and force it down their throat because it's what we would want, we do damage to the culture and our relationships. If we are to give and do things for others it should be for altruistic reasons.

Comment by Dave G on October 20, 2009 at 11:07am

Nicely put, Gaytor. People can help other people without having to include preaching a religion into the bargain, even when they are religious.

Comment by Feliz on October 24, 2009 at 12:10am

It's the element of self-righteousness that disturbs me.

I spent a summer long ago on an Indian reservation in Nevada helping to repaint a church. As I slept on a pew inside of the church with my ears constantly listening in fear for the rattle of a snake, the image of a darkskinned Christ hanging from the ceiling reinforced doubts in my mind. The American Indians there had painted Christ in their own image. As a minority myself, I didn't know whether to be amused, proud, or just outright disgusted.

So, what was that I thought. You mean we can simply take a majestic being, called God, and choose whatever skin color to make us identify with Him, Her, or It better? For the first time, Christianity felt silly and self-righteous.

Why couldn't I help these people for the sheer sake of helping them?

Why did I feel like I was offering something in return for a blessing from Jesus. It was selfish then and it would be now.

Back then, my Christian missionary group offered our white Jesus, enabling the American Indians to refashion "His" image, and we all went home suppossedly feeling that a great deed had been done. Meanwhile, I personally watched some American Indian males stumble into church visibly drunk.

What some of those citizens needed was substance-abuse counseling and better opportunities beyond casinos, false hopes of purification from sin in some after-life, and a sun-tanned Jesus to make them feel like even God could identify with their troubles.

African refugee camps, Indian reservations, inner-city projects ....bring them to Jesus and let's cross our fingers that safe sex, substance-free living, and jobs will come from some God-like force thereafter...self-righteous and just plain deceitful.

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