Catholicism: The “Because We Say So” Religion unless you've got a lot of money...

I came across this article while surfing.
Here in the United States the Catholic Church used it’s followers to push a “No Abortion Funding” through the Congress. In most places, if a politician wants to be elected, they must, in most cases, become “Pro Life.”
I know of only one openly Atheist congressmen.
Back in the mid 1980’s the Christian Coalition showed up at the Republican Party. They wanted to do the following:
1. Stop abortion.
2. Take away Gay rights.
3. Put prayer back in school.

We fought them back. But looking back, we should have hunted them down and killed them.
They look at kindness as a “weakness.” The same for:
Fairness
Justice
The Constitution
The Bill of Rights
Personal Freedom’s
Freedom of Choice
The right of a person, both Male and Female to have control over their body.
The list can go on and on…
By all rights the acts of the Catholic Church here in America for this last transgression should in it self put it’s priests, bishops, nuns, all it’s buildings, and it’s property on the tax rolls.
It’s time for them to pay their fair share of taxes since they want to use their followers as their “Agents” to promote their agenda.
They have been crossing the line of Separation of Church and State for some time now.
This article is from the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). It was published on December 9th of this year.
It deals with three women from Ireland who wanted to have abortions.
Some of us on here are Pro Choice and others are Pro Life.
That is fine.
I myself believe that a person, male or female have the right to have control over their body.
No government. No elected official. No Priest, Preacher, Bishop, Minister, Pope, Arch Bishop, Rabbi, Imam, Mullah, Ayatollah, no any religion of any sort can tell me what I can or cannot do concerning the medical needs of my body.
I am an American.
I am a Free Person.
If you choose to have an abortion that is a personal and private matter between you and your physician.
If you don’t that is a personal and private matter between you and your physician.
Plain and simple.
As I have posted before:
It’s no bodies business but your own.
It’s never been anyone else’s business.
Those who think it is need to mind their own business and in short, BUTT OUT.
If they have an issue with that then they can move to some other country where it is expected of your to spy on your neighbor and their personal and private business.
I suggest the following countries for starters:
Communist North Korea
Communist Cuba
Communist Mainland China
Iran
Saudi Arabia

That aside, it’s an interesting article.
But what I want to point out is the futility of stopping abortion.
You cannot legislate “morality.”
We tried that in the United States in the late 1920’s.
It was called Prohibition.
If failed miserably.
It lead to the creation of large organized crime families.
Countless murders.
Countless crimes.
And people still drank alcohol.
Eventually those who wanted Prohibition went public and asked for it to be overturned.
The same applies with abortion.
If a women wants one, she will find a way to have one.
Science, medicine and technology have progressed to the point where we have such things as:
The Morning After Pill
The Abortion Pill
Birth Control Pills
And others
But you still have those individuals who honest believe that:
Sex education will only lead to people having sex.
Condoms will only lead to people having sex.
Birth Control Pills will only lead to people having sex.
And so on…
I have some bad news for these people.
Sex is part of our makeup.
Now I could go on and give a list of sayings for and against abortion.
But the simple fact remains. If a women wants to have an abortion she will have one.
The same applies to Drugs and Alcohol. If a person wants them, they can get them. They’ll even pay a lot of money to have them.
So this article talks about a suit brought by these three women who had to travel to England to have an abortion.
In Ireland it’s against the law save for certain situations. Yes, the life of the mother is in danger.
And yes, the Catholic Church had a hand in these laws.
But what the Catholic Church won’t tell you is the South American country where all abortions are outlawed and what the affect of that has been.
Sad.
And to prove just how bad the law in Ireland has failed, about 140,000 Irish women have gone to England to have abortions.
It’s the same everywhere.
If a person is inhibited from having one, they will go where they can.

Here’s the story.

Wednesday, 9 December 2009
BBC
Ireland's abortion law challenged in European court
The Irish Republic's strict abortion law is being challenged in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8403013.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/

The legal action has been brought by three Irish women who say the effective ban on abortion in Ireland violates the European Convention on Human Rights.
All three have traveled to Britain to have abortions.
The Irish government has engaged two leading lawyers to argue its case that the country has a sovereign right to protect the life of the unborn.
The three Irish women will be identified only as A, B, and C during the Strasbourg court hearings.
They argue that being forced to travel abroad for abortions endangered their "health and well-being" as safeguarded by the European Convention on Human Rights.
The two constitutional lawyers representing the government of Ireland argue that the convention's safeguards cannot be interpreted as endorsing the right to abortion.
'Draconian'
Abortion is illegal in Ireland, a deeply Catholic country, unless the life of the woman is in danger.
The Irish constitution was amended in 1983 to include the "Pro-Life Amendment", which asserted that the unborn child had an explicit right to life from conception.
The case is the first challenge to Ireland's abortion laws in more than 15 years, the BBC's Europe correspondent Jonny Dymond says.
Almost 140,000 Irish women have traveled to Britain over the past 30 years to have abortions, our correspondent adds.
The Irish Family Planning Association welcomed the challenge to the laws, which it described as "draconian".
It said they violated international human rights norms "because they inflict such grievous harm to women's health and well-being".
But Johanna Higgins, co-founder of the Association of Catholic Lawyers of Ireland, told the BBC's World Today programme that a ruling against Ireland would be an infringement of its ability to decide its own laws.
"Whatever the human rights aspects are of this, abortion is illegal in Ireland because it is a criminal offence," she said.
"If I were in any country and this were to go against Ireland, I would be very concerned that the Europeans feel they can step into domestic law."

So what is your take on this and the affect the Catholic Church has had on this issue?

Views: 21

Comment by B. on December 14, 2009 at 4:51pm
LOL @ "I am an American. I am a Free Person." #monstcontradicotrystatementever

By the way, abortion is legal in "communist Cuba", "communist North Korea", "communist mainland China" and Iran. Saudi Arabia is the only country on your list that share's the majority of the USA's point of view on the topic.
If you're going to promote the USA as a safe haven for personal freedoms, careful what countries you cite in comparison. This was pretty ironic.

Also not necessary to start a new line with every sentence.

I'm a little bummed to learn this about Ireland, but I guess not surprised with their religiosity.

Fun fact I learned for another discussion on the same topic:
Abortion is LEGAL and FREE in every province in Canada for any female over the age of TWELVE and it is completely confidential: the physician has no right to disclose the pregnancy OR its termination to anyone, not even the girl's legal guardians. Go Canada.
Comment by Rick on December 14, 2009 at 7:42pm
Hey B.
Yes I know abortion is legal in the communist countries that I mentioned.
The reason I listed these countries is because of their form of government.
They are totalitarian in nature. And in fact the vast majority of them would be more at home in the former USSR or East Germany. They are of that level of mentality.
Having dealt with these types who want to ban abortion, take control of our government, our society, our way of life and so on, I suggest that they move to one of these countries.
They will be, shall we say, "more at home" there.
And that was the point, was irony.
These people want to cram their religion down your throat. If you disagree with them or challenge them then they consider you an “enemy of the state.” Look at John McCain in the last US Presidential election. You had that part of the so called Republican Party claim that the man was not a “real” Republican. Just how or where do these clowns come up with that?
But they want the US to be a “fundamental” Christian country. A “fundamentalist” country? Well there’s Iran.
Iran is lead by religious leaders. Even if the people of Iran elect someone to office that they religious leaders don't approve of, they'll place their candidate in that position.
So when you have a religion take over a government, like say in Iran, and even Ireland, any laws or rights that the "religion" or religious leaders do not approve of, will be taken from the people of that country.
The reason I started a new line was to make a point.

Now as for the LOL I'm a free man...
I am.
I have through my travels been to countries where there weren't any freedoms. No freedom of expression, or press and so on. I have also had people tell me that they wish they had been “born in America.” That’s pretty chilling to hear that from someone in their own native country say that.
You see, a person who is free is one that knows their rights and liberties. I don't remember the man's name but he said well over 30 years ago, "Those who have rights defend them.."
And that's true.
That especially hit hard at home after touring the Death Camp Auschwitz in Poland. Yes. It did happen. Yes, it can happen again. And in some cases, has.
I have my rights and I fight to defend them.
That's why I write my elected officials and tell them to get rid of the Patriot Act and other such things. That’s why I tell people at political get togethers that they need to be aware of such thing.
Here’s an example. The Faith Based Initiative. One of the religious groups that gets money from the US Government is a BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR CHARITY. This is BEFORE they receive money from the US Government. Now do they really need the US taxpayer to give them money? I don’t think so.
Now take this one step further. Here in the US if you donate to a charity you get to use it as a tax deduction. But when the US Government takes YOUR money you pay out in taxes and gives it to a charity YOU are not being afforded the TAX DEDUCTION. You should see the “lights” go on in their eyes when they realize this.
I would go into a long and drawn out explanation but I don't want to spend the next two hours writing it out.
Now are there other countries with more freedoms and liberties? I'm sure. Look at the Netherlands. WOW. You can buy pot, hash, and other things in a café. It’s not against the law to have or use the stuff.
Look at other countries with have wonderful health care for their people. The US ranks 37th in the world. England, France, Germany, Formosa, Cuba, and Norway are just a few that outshine the US.
Are people in the US being lied too and mislead about tort reform?
They sure are. In fact, the People of the Unites States are voting to take away their rights to have access to the courts.
And, the People of the United States are routinely entering into contracts where they forgo their rights to seek recourse through the court system. Auto makers having this in their purchase agreements as well as homebuilders. Even employment contracts have that. Even in the cases where women contractors that are gang raped are being told that because they agreed to it in their contract they cannot sue the employer for having a dangerous work environment for women. There was a case like this recently in Houston. The women also testified in front of the US Senate on this matter.
Yup. Tort reform at it’s best.
Look at health care reform.
You have people like Palin out there making outrageous statements about Death Panels. HMO's and the insurance industry here in the US have had those panels for YEARS. So why don't we hear about that?
So, you know.
You're right.
(I did that just to bother you.... ;) )
I think what Canada does is wonderful. I think their health care system is great. And this from having worked in the insurance business. And let me tell you, those insurance companies get away with murder. They try and promote this idea that insurance is very very complex. They use a ton of smoke and mirrors.
What I tell people down here in Texas is to take a two day shake and bake licensing course. It's won't make you an expert on the subject. BUT. And this is a big "BUT." What you learn in that course will open your eyes to what the insurance companies can and cannot do by LAW. And let me tell you ya do get pissed. And I mean pissed.
These business break the law every day. They also file frivolous lawsuits every week. In State and Federal courts.
I've helped several people out simply by telling them to file a complaint with the state insurance commission. I've even had insurance companies try stuff on me. They don't get too far.
Sadly most people don’t want to be bothered with this stuff. That is until they find themselves in a situation where they’ve been hurt or wronged. Then they want recourse and find out that they longer have it. And what really adds insult to injury is when they find out that they used their vote to make that change happen.
Comment by B. on December 14, 2009 at 8:33pm
ah, I got told.

I was hoping you were going to be more classical redneck American so I could tease you.
You took all the fun out of it =( lol

Thank you for being a good human being, and not crazy.
Comment by Rick on December 15, 2009 at 4:31am
I beg your pardon. I am from Texas but I am educated and my neck young lady is "rouge." ; ) hee hee hee
Mind you, there are those down here who are their own fathers. And in the town I'm currently living in it is just chock full of them. We're talking Shara Palin. And some have actually bought her book. I wonder what they'll do with them after they've colored them in?
Anyway....
You do have those who think McCain is not a "real" Republican. I use to be a Republican until 1992. Now I grew up in the only Congressional district that carried Berry Goldwater in the 1964 Presidential election. In fact I even saw him a young child speak in Houston. Okay, I'm old...sigh...back to the topic at hand.
And if you walked out then end of the neighborhood I lived in, turned right you could see Daddy Bush's office. The one he used when he left office. If you walked to the highway and looked left you could see where Mommy and Daddy Bush had their "official" residence when he was in D.C. It was a room in a hotel sans resort.
They did that for tax purposes. Texas does not have a state income tax. A lot of people in the military do the same thing. He didn't think of it himself.
I am also a graduate of Texas A&M University. Let me tell you there AIN'T ANYTHING LIBERAL AT THAT SCHOOL. I think the only reason they had any Democrats was due to Affirmative Action.
But I watched as the crazy Christian Coalition took over the Republican Party starting in 1984.
We fought them back for a while. But they were able to offer up wads of money via PACs and a block of votes via the Churches. And I've even heard people say that their preacher says to vote for X and that's what they'll do.
So when it comes to hitting those clowns up on taxes and BACK taxes I'm all for it.

I mentioned that I'd traveled to various countries. Well I toured Eastern Europe back in the early 80's for college credit. And I did go to a lot of those communist countries. What is really really scary is that these religious clowns, their religions and their leaders actually act like the old Communists did. And I mean from Gitmo to the Patriot Act.
The "father" of the Patriot Act is a Vietnamese immigrant who came to the US when he was about 13.
He is also a Catholic. He's been involved in some School prayer cases too. His name is Viet D. Dinh. Professor of Law; Co-Director, Georgetown Law - Asia.
The reason I'm telling you this is under Communist doctrine, by the time a child is 9 they are expected to have a working knowledge of Marxism. This guy came here at age 13. So you can guess what his formative years were like. And in an Asian society all children are expected to do well in school. The reason is that if a child does poorly it reflects on the entire family. This in turn brings "dishonor" to the family. I can tell you Dinh did bring ANY dishonor to his family. NONE.
Now this is the short version of the parallels of Communists and the so called "Christian Coalition" types. But the similarities are really there.
I think is was Shaw who said, "A fanatic is someone who'll give his life for a cause and thinks nothing of giving yours."
And they are scary. And when you through in religion, mix with "doing Gods work" you got the potential for real problems. The abortion issue is just one area where they get frothing at the mouth.
Remember, there are no atheist terrorist training camps.

And remember, it's ROUGE neck....ROUGE.....

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