Comment by CJoe on January 8, 2009 at 11:05pm

Great post yo...

It's funny because I was definitely one of those Christians that had been convinced being a "faith fool" was the only route because, as everyone knows, God's mind can't be known and who are we to judge his ways? Yeah... ignorance was exonerated. This was the only way for me to BE a Christian, too, because they really didn't like it when I asked so many questions. They had to demonize my mind in order to shush me up, "Oh! Them thar thought're from SATAN! Doubtin' is a SIN!"

Yeah. The frustrating thing really is that a person has to want the truth worse than they want to validate the existence of an imaginary friend.

Comment by Jay E on January 8, 2009 at 11:35pm

You are too right. When you meet somebody on the fence, that person is more willing to listen. In this particular instance, the truth is utterly ignored. If the listener doesn't want to change, or feel a need to deconvert, there's no point. I certainly won't change, and I shouldn't have the expectation that he will, too. But it doesn't hurt to plant those little seeds of doubt.

Comment by Jay E on January 8, 2009 at 11:47pm

sorry, i should have said instead of "utterly ignored," the truth is willfully ignored. which i think is sadder.

Comment by Sophie on January 9, 2009 at 7:51am

Since logic really doesn't work, my next tactic is more subtle. Whenever possible, I highlight the freakazoid beliefs of Scientologists, Mormons, and Catholics. This way we are automatically on the same side. Isn't if funny how Mormons wear that magic underwear? What about Scientology Operating Thetan III? What about Catholic rosaries? 1001 Hindu gods? (The ironic thing is this particular Christian feels more kinship with a Hindu friend than with me. Christianity and Hinduism barely resemble each other but I digress). Aren't gullible people superstitious for no apparent reason? Ha ha funny right? But the next step is a big leap of faith so to speak for me, really. I guess by poking big gaping holes at other belief systems, the hope is that someday this Christian will examine his own.

nice

Comment by River Otter on January 9, 2009 at 10:52am

I have a Christian friend I used to like to debate with. Problem is, he turns his brain off when I start outgunning him. This is very frustrating to me. It is so frustrating that I won't start a debate with him anymore. I let him bring it to me. When he does, he gets mad because I still outgun him.

You see, I am the first Atheist he has ever known. He has never known anything outside of his little town, & what his parents & preacherman have brainwashed him with. He actually cried when I told him I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

He is so fixed on the afterlife and seeing his dead relatives & friends that he can't let go. Just the other day, he found out that his father had an affair on his mother (both parents are dead now). This was a huge blow to him and I made sure to throw in that his father is probrably in "Hell" now. Cold, I know, but the truth according to his Holey Book.

He also keeps telling me that he wants me to convert so I will go to heaven and he will be able to see me when we are both dead. I told him, "Don't expect to see me in Heaven and you need to cherish the time you have with me now." He didn't like that either, but tough shit. Someone has be realistic and set expectations. I will never convert to any religion. I am an Atheist. I could be wrong but, I don't think that many Atheists convert to a religion. I know that I would never convert.

I will keep hammering away at his Holey Book and tell him to show me his math and science to back up his claims when he is feeling froggy. I have tried to plant those seeds of doubt only to be ignored. There is no converting him either, his little box is reenforced with staples & duct tape.

All I can do now, is give Atheism a good name. I can prove to him that we are good people with ethics that requires NO god. I can answer any questions he has, (and he's curious) as long as he doesn't get bent out of shape. That's all I can really do.

Debating with Christians is very frustrating.

Comment by Jay E on January 9, 2009 at 12:39pm

What a phenomenal and thoughtful post. RiverOtter. To me, this will be summing up my life in a nutshell, I will give Atheism a good name. I couldn't have said it more beautifully or poignantly. Christians and nonbelievers both want to "convert" the other party and each will accuse the other of not listening. However, they will have God on their side and we will have logic. I say, we have bigger ammunition.

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