Comment by Nelson on October 4, 2011 at 9:28pm

oh no...

Comment by Ashley C on October 4, 2011 at 9:54pm

oh no what?

Comment by Unseen on October 4, 2011 at 10:44pm

Maybe Nelson has an aversion to conspiracy theories, as I do. And a collection of conspiracy theories...well, that's even worse. Conspiracy theorists are generally as impervious to actual counter-evidence as religious people are. And did you ever notice that most people who believe one conspiracy theory tends to believe several, or many, conspiracy theories.

 

Most conspiracy theories can't possibly be true. It'd require too much coordination and too much secrecy to ever remain a secret. I mean...sending a secret demolition team in to wire the twin towers with explosives? And no one noticed? No one on the team felt guilty about all the deaths and came clean to the New York Times? Until it gets past the theory stage and someone actually involved beaks their silence, I'm not interested.

Comment by Nelson on October 4, 2011 at 10:50pm

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but that movie has been debunked over and over again. Even Christ-mythicists like Robert Price and Richard Carrier have criticized it.

Unfortunately there are still so many atheists that suggest it and who point to it as the key moment in their deconversion.

I wrote this way back when to provide a bunch of links. (honestly I don't know how many of the links are still active, it's been so long, but it's worth a shot to get some real information on the movie rather than poor scholarship and conspiracy theory nonsense.)

 

Regarding Jesus-historicity, it takes way more than a few minutes in a low production value movie that some guy decided to make using 2 or 3 sources in order to get into the issues there.

And before the comments here turn into a debate between the mythicists and the historicists, I'm not saying that Jesus definitely did exist or did not exist, I'm just saying that Zeitgeist's treatment of the topic is not to be relied on.

Comment by Doug Reardon on October 4, 2011 at 11:16pm

Personally, I like the theory that Paul was a roman spy, sent to infiltrate the christian movement and demoralize them.

Comment by Nathan Hevenstone on October 5, 2011 at 1:36am

Please consider:

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/

 

Zeitgeist drew me in when I first saw it, too. One of the hazards of being a huge fan of Bill Hicks is that, because he was a conspiracy theorist (JFK, New World Order, all of it), a hell of a lot of his fans are conspiracy theorists.

 

It was through some of his fans that I finally saw Zeitgeist.

 

Like Bill, Zeitgeist is actually an inspiration... because I never would have looked up any of these things or begun my path to my current worldview if not for Hicks and Zeitgeist. But Zeitgeist is not just wrong... it's hopelessly wrong.

 

For example: that Jesus is a common character throughout human history is no secret. This movie just had the misfortune of comparing Jesus to all the wrong characters, and, in some cases, making up information to prove the point.

 

As far as 9/11... I have always agreed that the Bush Administration used 9/11 to further their own goals (Iraq), but then I think most people would agree with that.

 

This movie, however, claims that the Bush administration, among others, orchestrated 9/11. Again... this is not true.

 

I understand where the creators of Zeitgeist are coming from. I get the conspiracy theorists. I sympathize with the idea that corporations run our government. Obviously. But again... that is not an idea anyone would contest... I hope.

 

Where they go off the rails is that they think this somehow translates into a New World Order... some kind of one-world government. How they make that leap I will never understand, because I tried... I ended up grabbing onto the end and climbing back up to the starting side because their bridge kept breaking under me... built, as it was, on such faulty logic and so little evidence.

 

Take Zeitgeist with a grain of salt. Use it as a starting point to learn more about the history of religion, the nuances of 9/11, and the real threat that corporations actually pose to the rest of us (and no, it does NOT have anything to do with some kind of New World Order). Learn more about the Freemasons (I have 2 Uncles & a great-grandfather who are at the highest degree, and 1 uncle and 2 cousins who've joined... I myself am pledging with AEPi... yes, it's a Jewish fraternity... but at least 8 of the brothers I've met so far and almost all of my pledge class are proud atheists) and the Bildberburg Group (God forbid our leaders get a weekend away from the media! That's just too much to ask? Really?).

 

But please don't ever think Zeitgeist is true. It starts with a kernel of truth, but then buries that kernel under so much bullshit that the kernel itself disappears into thin air.

Comment by Nathan Hevenstone on October 5, 2011 at 1:38am

Joseph Breton... actually, chances are that the mentions of Jesus in Josephus's work were forgeries added in a couple hundred years later.

Comment by Unseen on October 5, 2011 at 2:10am

@Nathan Hevenstone   Actually, big business does control our government. But they don't do it conspiratorially, the do it right out in the open pretty much. I think most people understand this, which means if it's a conspiracy it's not a very successful one, in terms of keeping their shenanigans secret.

Comment by Bill Too on October 5, 2011 at 5:33am

Bill Maher's "Religulous" will help anyone along the atheist path if they can stop laughing long enough.

Comment by Nathan Hevenstone on October 5, 2011 at 11:30am

@Unseen... that;s what I said...

 

Isn't it?

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