**updated the letter**

Hi

You should know that we do love you and care about you; this is why I am sending you this email; please do read it all the way through.

I remember chatting to you in 2002 on yahoo messenger and remember one of the very few discussions we had and that was religion; at this time I thought I was christian and you claimed to be Atheist; what could have made you change from being an Atheist to believing in the teachings of Mohamed?

The reason I don't believe in god any more is because I opened my eyes and I think you should open your eyes too; I know you will come at me and tell me that you have opened your eyes and that the the teachings of Mohamed is the way to god but the thing is you are not thinking clearly and you have your husband and mosque to brainwash you.

Religion is Tradition; tradition is something passed down from generation to generation, there is no evidence at all to support religion, none what so ever, nada, zip, zero.
You might think I am being blasphemous here when you read this next part but Mohamed was a crazy evil manipulative warlord; he knew how to get people to listen to him and to believe in what he was saying with out any supporting evidence.
Mohamed claims to have been visited by Gabriel the angel multiple times who told him verses that are in the Quran; verses that were never written down until after Mohamed died.
Is there any evidence that Mohamed actually spoke to Gabriel or spoke to god as he claimed he did?? no there is no evidence of this none at all; it is all faith based and the non believers were tortured and killed. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

Mohamed was a sick son of a bitch; he probably had daddy issues... here are some more quotes from the Quran


2.216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

3.151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

3.169. Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

5.51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

9.64. Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire

.. I could go on and on with verses from the book you call peaceful; the quran makes the bible look like a childrens bedtime book.



Mohamed was a man who wanted power so one day he decided to tell his friends and family that god spoke to him; soon his friends and family helped him preach his made up words from god to some more people and he made up even more words from god to convert even more people to his way of thinking.
Soon he had enough 'sheep' following him to get his 'message' from god to the masses so he started convincing his 'lambs' to kill people that were not believers in Islam because they were infidels and needed to die; he convinced them to kill for god because he told them that god told him that they would be rewarded in heaven if they died fighting for his cause.

You say Islam is a religion of peace?? that's total bullshit if you follow the original teachings of Mohamed and if you are not following the original teachings then according to Mohamed you will burn in hell fire.

Sorry if it seems like I am just criticizing Islam and you but I am not intending to do this; all religion is bullshit it is just you are following Islam and I am trying to make a point.

I don't get the fact that when I first meet you last year in person you didn't mind the fact that I could see your hair but as soon as your husband came in he told you that you are not allowed to show me or any one else your hair because I am of the opposite sex and am able to marry you??? you told us that you didn't want to show anyone your hair and that it is your choice and you feel more comfortable doing so? is it because your mosque or Adam makes you feel you are not following Islam if you show people your hair?

There have been so many people killed because of religion; wars have been fought over who is right and who is wrong in the scheme of religion; well I hate to tell you this but they are all wrong; there is no god, there is no hell, there is no heaven, no angels, no demons, no arc, no Moses, no Jesus, none of that but there are crazy religious fanatics like Mohamed and like the Pope and like Osama Bin Laden

Your husband wants to move with you to Saudi Arabia where you will be closer to Mecca and will be integrated with other people of the islamic faith; if you go to Saudi Arabia you forgo all rights you have as a woman as a woman does not have many rights there where the man is regarded as Superior over the woman; your husband can be married 3 more times under Shari’a and can divorce you just by saying 'I divorce you' 3 times but you will not beable to divorce him even if he beats you or cheats on you unless you go to court.
You will not beable to smoke pot any more as it is sometimes even punishable by death; you shouldn't even smoke weed even in the USA because it is forbidden under Islamic law; damning you to burn in hell fire yet again.
If you get your way and you move to Egypt you will have a few more rights than you would in the gulf as they are slowly getting rid of medieval law and implementing laws that actually make sense.
Why would you want to move some where where you would be classed a 2nd class citizen? women in America fought for years for those rights; it seems you don't believe in them.

Not all religious aspects are wrong; I believe in some of the teachings that are taught in religion such as do not kill and do not commit adultery but then again that is just common sense and nothing to do with religion.

You can lead a healthy happy moral normal life without religion; you don't need it to be a good person; religion is bad for you; it teaches people to hate; it teaches people to be ignorant of others; and it gives people like the pope and leaders of mosques; and other churches money and power they don't deserve.

I love being an Agnostic Atheist I don't have to wake up early on Sunday and I don't have to give money to the church; I don't have to pray 5 times a day to Mecca; I don't have to feel bad every time I sin; I don't have to feel guilty.

I have done my homework on alot of religions focusing on Islam and Christianity; please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about just because I don't believe Mohamed was the last prophet; I have researched and have had discussions on these topics for the last few months or more.


Why would I believe in a man in the sky who will send me to hell if i have impure thoughts or don't believe in him/her? why would I want to go to heaven with an asshole like that running the place?

Religion is based on primitive thinking when we didn't know any thing scientific; why people still believe in religion is completely baffling to me; it is a medieval mind control trick to control the masses; you are smart why do you believe? have you got some evidence that I don't have?? if you don't have any evidence I suggest you live life to the fullest because life is what you make of it; there is no after life; all you get is this life; only one, no more nada.

The website Jess showed you was a link to a video about the fact that some followers of Islam in the UN have been trying to get an international law passed that makes it criminal to criticize religion specifically Islam; making it illegal in every country even countries such as the US and New Zealand that have freedom of speech to speak out against Islam; it is just another way Islam is shutting people up; they cant kill infidels anymore without international condemnation so they will put all Islam haters in prison because they are infidels and we are Allah's chosen ones.
You will say that this is wrong because it was on fox news; well it was on CNN and a whole lot of other news stations as well not just the 'infidel' station Fox

You may hate me for sending you this email but if this is what happens then I am very sorry; I hope you will not be so ignorant to just think that I am bashing on you because I hate religion; I am doing this because I am in this family now and I wanted to express my feelings to you on religion.

You say that your evidence for believing in god is all around us?? what is all around us? i dont see god and neither do you; god is a delussion; and a hope that people cling to when they cant explain things rationally; if you really read what I am saying with a completly open mind and actually listen to reason you will see that what I am saying is true; if you have been brainwashed then ofcourse you will keep on being deluded.?

You tell us that we need to read Islam for dummies? and Quran for dummies? I dont need to read these books to be educated on the topic because what I allready know about the world is that god does not exist; the bible and the quran and all the other religious books out there are just a bunch of words written by men who were mentally insane.

Existence is a relatively simple concept -- it is defined as that which consists of either matter or energy. Therefore if a god exists, it must be composed of either matter or energy.
The opposite must also be true. If a god is not composed of matter or energy, then that god, by definition, does not exist. Thus to argue that a god exist, despite a total absence of matter or energy, is to argue, existence equals non-existence, which is a complete contradiction.
If a god exists, then physical evidence is really the only methodology by which we can ascertain that a god exists. Of course, this does not require direct physical evidence -- we cannot perceive black holes directly, but we know that they exist due to the effects of their gravity wells on surrounding matter, as well as the flashes of energy that are released as captured matter crosses the event horizon. But since "existence" is defined as that which is composed of matter or energy, the proof of existence must be some evidence of that matter or energy.
Evidence is defined as that which impacts our physical senses in some manner, either directly, or through some translating device such as a spectrograph or an oscilloscope. Since our sensory organs are designed to perceive the effects of matter and energy, it is through the evidence of the senses that we can determine the existence or nonexistence of things.
If I argue that something exists, but then claim there is no way to detect it, my argument contradicts itself. Let's say I tell a deaf man that I hear a deep, loud sound coming from a speaker. If he lays his hand on it and feels no vibrations, he has every right to be skeptical. If I say that this loud sound does not have vibrations, he may then pull out his trusty microphone or other sound wave detector. If this instrument detects no sound in the vicinity, can I still tell him that this loud sound is occurring? At some point, if my definition of "loud sound" basically boils down to "that which is the opposite of any evidence that a loud sound is occurring," then clearly my approach to truth needs a little work.
This approach helps clarify the truth value of the proposition that a god does not exist. If a god exists, then sensual evidence of some sort is required to determine the existence of that god. If a god is not made up of matter or energy, then that god does not exist, since that which is not composed of matter or energy -- does not exist. If a god is made up of matter and energy, then it is subject to physical laws. Since it is bound by physical laws, miracles are impossible, because miracles are, by definition, violations of physical laws. Likewise, a god cannot be all knowing and all-powerful, since both attributes would violate the basic tenets of physical laws. All knowing would require instantaneous knowledge of all matter, past, present and future, which is clearly impossible, while all powerful would require the ability to break the bounds of physical laws, which brings us back to the realm of nonexistence.
If a god is subject to physical laws, then praying to a god makes about as much sense as worshiping a black hole, begging the Sun to grant you favors, or circumcising your son to appease the moon. If a god is not subject to physical laws, then the concept of a god is synonymous with the concept of non-existence.
Why is there such resistance to the fact that a god does not exist? Many people redefine "God" within their own minds as "a potential form of matter or energy that has not been discovered yet," or "that which could exist in an alternate universe," or something to that effect.
However, either a criterion for determining truth exists, or it does not. If such a criterion exists, then it must be objective, and based on the evidence of the senses and reason, which precludes the existence of any deities. If no such criterion exists, then both everything and nothing is true, and agnosticism, atheism, superstition, religion and the belief of the flying spaghetti monster are all equally valid.
If an objective criterion for truth exists, then it cannot logically be applied according to whim, or only in situations that feel emotionally comfortable. Through this logical method we can determine no god exists.
Actions are more important than beliefs.


If you can give me physical undeniable evidence that Mohamed is not a crazy manipulative warlord then I will lay down my life for Allah

Evidence could be:

Verified, specific prophecies that could not have been contrived.
If the prophecy is vague, unclear or garbled (like Nostradamus' ramblings, for example). It must be detailed, specific and unambiguous in its prediction and wording.
If the prophecy is trivial, anyone could predict that it will be cold next winter, or that this drought/plague/flood will eventually subside. The prophecy must predict something surprising, unlikely or unique.
If the prophecy is obviously contrived for other reasons, No official seer or court astrologer ever predicted that the king he worked for would be a brutal, evil tyrant who would ruin the country.
If the prophecy is self-fulfilling; i.e., if the mere fact of the prophecy's existence could cause people to make it come true, The Jewish people returned to their homeland in Israel just as the Bible said they would, but this isn't a genuine prediction - they did it because the Bible said they would. The predicted event can't be one that people could stage.
If the prophecy predicts an event that already happened and the writing of the prophecy itself can't be shown to have preceded the event.
If the prophecy predicts an event that already happened and the happening of that event can't be verified by independent evidence. For example, Christian apologists claim that Jesus fulfilled many Old Testament prophecies, but the authors of the New Testament obviously had access to those prophecies also; what would have prevented them from writing their story to conform to them? The extra-biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus is so scanty that it is impossible to disprove such a proposal.
And finally, if the prophecy is the lone success among a thousand failures, anyone can throw prophecies against a wall until one sticks. The book or other source from which it comes must have at least a decently good record on other predictions.
These conditions, are reasonable, and are only what would be expected of a true prophet with a genuine gift.
Scientific knowledge in holy books that was not available at the time.

but until then I will leave you with a few quotes.

"My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic."

-Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

"Religion is just mind control."- George Carlin, comedian

"If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good- and CARES about any of it- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working. "

-Frank Zappa, American musician

"There is so much in the bible against which every instinct of my being rebels, so much so that I regret the necessity which has compelled me to read it through from beginning to end. I do not think that the knowledge I have gained of its history and sources compensates me for the unpleasant details it has forced upon my attention."

-Helen Keller, American lecturer


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."

"All religions have been made by men."

-Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

Views: 8

Tags: islam

Comment by loop the loop on March 4, 2009 at 9:07am
I would put the part about Muhammad being a crazy evil motherfucker out or sugar coat it a bit...otherwise she will see you as being offensive and irrational and definitely won't listen to you. I'm not saying this so we can tip-toe around religion - I too think Muhammad was a crazy motherfucker! But in order to get her support, you have to try a bit of a softer approach.

The rest of the response - especially the parts you have referenced as evidence, are great. Being an ex-Muslim myself, I think that she will however tell you that you have completely read the Qur'an out of context (which is a bullshit way out I believe).

The response is long enough, but you could also mention the treatment of women as I think that by using women's issues, you could really connect with her and empathize with her in a way. You could mention that Islam treats women as second class citizens, as well as non-believers, otherwise why would her husband convince her to convert?

I find it interesting that an Atheist woman was converted to Islam...it befuddles me.
Comment by Morgan Matthew on March 4, 2009 at 11:41am
I agree with Odd Innuendo here. Over all good piece but she is right.
Comment by Scott Ferguson on March 4, 2009 at 4:07pm
thanks for the comments guys; I will take out the mother fucker part.
I know that she is going to turn around and tell me I am taking her whole religion out of context; Im prepared for that, I just want to tell her how we feel about her religion.
When I was staying with them for 2 weeks her husband was always trying to get us to watch anti American videos online with him; I am not saying they are anti American because they were Islam videos; they were anti American because they were horrible islamic propaganda videos saying that Americans are the infidels.
Her husband is one sick sob.
Comment by Scott Ferguson on March 5, 2009 at 4:57am
I changed the letter a bit, just taking out the personal attacks and putting in some more points to my arguments; I included some qoutes from some atheists on the internet with some better understanding than me; I know she will shoot me down but ohwell.
Comment by Scott Ferguson on March 5, 2009 at 5:26pm
OK I got a response to my email, she didnt even read it all the way through; she really is ignorant and doesnt want to open her mind to the possibility that god doesnt exist.

here is her lame response.

Scott i would love to give you a chance and read your message but in the third paragraph you begin trying to convert me to atheism. i try very hard to avoid trying to convert people to Islam, i worked VERY hard at it for you when you were here, and its not unreasonable for me to ask the same of you.
but anyway right after you tried to convert me to atheism you implied i'm so weakminded as to allow myself to be brainwashed by my husband and mosque. you then proceed to viciously insult my faith, the prophet of my faith, following religion, my religious text etc. you then take verses of the Quran and use them out of context. i could go on and on, getting angrier and angrier by the moment, or, i could stop reading, leaving a minute possibility that perhaps we don't end up hating each other, and respectfully ask you to rewrite your message. when you rewrite it, keep in mind that i haven't cursed at you, so i don't want you to curse at me. i never intentionally insulted you or your beliefs, and if i did on accident, i am thoroughly apologetic. if this is the case and i have offended you, then before you rewrite your message, we should address this personal issue between us without delving into theology. once we've addressed and corrected any personal issues and you rewrite your message, clear of insults and swearing, we will be free to have a civilized and intelligent debate about theology.
until then, husband of my cousin, i'm currently too sick and weak to put up with personal attacks so i'm just gonna lay down and hope i get better.
Comment by Morgan Matthew on March 6, 2009 at 1:26am
haha hmmm
Comment by Scott Ferguson on March 6, 2009 at 1:55am
here is my response..

Sorry but I am not rewriting the letter just because you feel offended by it; if you dont read it then fine but it just proves that you are ignorant and that Islam is all about censorship.

I would really like to know something though, why islam? and what evidence to you have to support the sanity of your false prophet?

And she replies...

reread what you wrote! that was horribly disrespectful to me. if you can't see that, i could come up with plenty of insults for you too but i choose not to. i don't want to censor your thoughts and beliefs but swearing at me and attacking me personally when i barely even know you is just plain rude. why did you write those? was it to piss me off? was it out of genuine concern for my well being? was it to prove to me that atheists are generally closed minded jackasses that can't practice what they preach? was it because you have important information that i need to read? i wanna know. because from what i read you didn't seem like you were trying to inform or educate me, since educators are rarely so condescending. if you were genuinely concerned about me, you wouldn't mind rewriting it because the importance of the message would outweigh your desire to show me your potty mouth. Jessica told me you enjoyed being a jackass about religion. i tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. silly me.

and I say...

I did not mean any disrespect to you; the fact is I shouldnt have to rewrite the letter; you may as well not read anymore of the letter I sent you because the rest of it will just offend you.

And her again...

the fact is you shouldn't have written such a derogatory, inflammatory and disrespectful letter to begin with. i shouldn't have to ask you to rewrite it because you should have enough respect for not only me but people in general not to talk to people like that. more of my friends are agnostic than anything else. i have christian friends. when we talk about religion, we don't have to insult each other, we don't have to try to convert each other and we don't have 3 page rants AT each other, we have conversations WITH one another. the falsities and outright lies in your first page would have taken weeks to rebut. i'd prefer to address them one at a time or even one page at a time. did you really expect me to read a 3 page rant and respond to all of it? have you reread what you sent me at all?

And me again..

I reread it and the only thing I can come up with is that I insulted you by saying false and 'prophet' am I correct?

I wasnt trying to deconvert you; I was only expressing my views.

----
ended here.

not sure if I will continue this little flame war I am having with her; it seems rather futile as she is hell bent on islam being brainwashed and all.
Comment by Morgan Matthew on March 6, 2009 at 2:50am
lol wow keep it coming
Comment by Scott Ferguson on March 7, 2009 at 6:58am
okay i have more to post; this is actually very amusing; she is so ignorant and thinks she is right, maybe she just doesnt want to be wrong so she refuses to even listen to reason; after all they are taught that they will go to hell if they doubt Allah.
I did find an awesome site http://www.apostatesofislam.com which she of course refuses to believe because she read the 1st paragraph and thinks it is arabic tranlation gone wrong twisted to make islam look bad even though the site is made by ex muslims.
with out further adue here is the messages.

Her
jessica, i love you. that's why i tried to talk to you and answer your questions. you showed enough respect for me not to attack me or my faith, and i appreciate it. scott, i appreciate your concern, but i think there must be something horribly wrong with you if you can look at how you spoke to me and think that its ok. so here is what i have to say about it. if, after that, you still want to carry on intelligent theological debates i'm happy to oblige.

ُلۡ يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلۡڪَـٰفِرُونَ

Say (O Prophet): O ye who reject faith!

لَآ أَعۡبُدُ مَا تَعۡبُدُونَ

I worship not that which ye worship;

وَلَآ أَنتُمۡ عَـٰبِدُونَ مَآ أَعۡبُدُ

Nor worship ye that which I worship.

وَلَآ أَنَا۟ عَابِدٌ۬ مَّا عَبَدتُّمۡ

And I shall not worship that which ye worship.

وَلَآ أَنتُمۡ عَـٰبِدُونَ مَآ أَعۡبُدُ

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

لَكُمۡ دِينُكُمۡ وَلِىَ دِينِ

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Quran 109:106





Her
March 7 at 6:52pm
google scientific miracles in the Quran

Me
March 7 at 6:57pm
Just one example..


The ONLY place where the Qur'an is SAID to call the Earth round is 79:30, which Rashad Khliafa's 1989 translation reads as "He made the Earth egg-shaped". In his 1978 translation, he agreed with ALL OTHER TRANSLATIONS, which call the Earth "spread out"...ie FLAT. Khalifa's 1989 translation is the ONLY one in existence which translates "dahaha" as "egg-shaped"

Before you go around advertising these miracles, please verify them.

Her
Yesterday at 11:34pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnqRMt0FimY

Her
Yesterday at 11:35pm
watch your attitude

Her
Yesterday at 11:42pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIGo1JcDMwI&feature=related

Me
Yesterday at 11:52pm
found a website that can do better than me at explaining what I want to explain.. please read http://www.apostatesofislam.com/apostates/abulk/articles/allah_cannot_be_a_god.htm

Me
Yesterday at 11:55pm
Did you know - Quran plagiarised the wrong theory of ancient Greek scientists who believed that Semen originates from the backbone?

Me
Today at 12:01am
actually http://www.apostatesofislam.com is all i need to say..

and http://www.apostatesofislam.com/the_real_offender.htm

Loading...
Her
Today at 12:18am
http://wakeupproject.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2394

Me
Today at 12:22am
just arabic translations gone wrong; misconstrued.
Most of the scientific 'miracles' in the quran are wrong and have been proven to be greek theory's from before the quran was written.

Her
Today at 12:28am
as far as that website, it seems to be from a perspective as ignorant as your own, i see why you like it. the first arguement i saw on that website against Islam was concerning wife beating. to that, i say this:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating.htm
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46MM_O02Alg

Her
Today at 12:30am
every quranic verse you've used so far to debunk Islam has been nothing but arabic translations gone wrong.

Me
Today at 12:32am
no arguments there, the christians love to beat the wives.

the website i sent you has been created by ex devote muslims who are now non muslims.

it is not ignorant, saying that it is ignorant is extremly ignorant of you esp if you havent even read it.. it actually makes sense.

Her
Today at 12:43am
well they obviously didn't know arabic or they wouldn't have made such ignorant arguements against the Quran. the examples they give of Islam as a religion of violence and hatred are the same stupid arguements you find on websites from people who have never been Muslim.

Me
Today at 12:47am
okay, every website and every video you have sent me I have read and watched, I have also read the books you wanted me to read, yes I downloaded them for free illegally so sue me :-)

the fact is... none of what I have read of seen makes any sense in the real world; all your theories can be debunked; and what proof do you have that proves that the verses that you claim i have taken out of context are falsely translated?? what proof do you have to prove that the 'miracles' of the quran are not falsely translated and/or stolen from other races ie the Greeks or the egyptions who were both way ahead of their time and near enough for Mohamed to steal the ideas.

Her
Today at 12:53am
knowing arabic and reading the Quran are all the proof anyone needs. try it. my advise would be to read it from back to front though. as you should know, arabic is written right to left, back to front, as opposed to right to left front to back so when reading a book written in arabic (even an english translation, its still best read in the order it was written.

Scott Ferguson
Today at 12:54am
*slaps forehead in amazement*
Comment by Scott Ferguson on March 7, 2009 at 7:04am
she didnt understand my *slaps forehead in amazement* so I sent her the following..

If you read Richard Dawkins - God Delusion I will read the Quran, I will even buy you a copy of the book.

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