Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 17, 2009 at 6:13am

Natalie Phox-
First off I'd like to say that you are of course entitled to your own opinion.
Secondly I'd like to say that your opinion might be more easily discussed if you started your own blog or forum post for it instead of hijacking someone this one.
The intention of this particular blog is to help another atheist find a resolution to a problem that is a conflict with our governments separation of church and state. Your last comment has a very high potential to deviate away from that theme and start on another entirely, causing confusion, cross posting and take away from the authors intended plea for help.

Comment by mrs kelligurl on May 17, 2009 at 10:58am

Matthew, that's pretty funny....I'm beginning to think this is 'God's Army"..lmao

Frank, I agree with you, when I did my enlistment into the Navy and into the Army it was a group enlistment....and to be honest, I don't think I was even paying attention (I was ready to get out of there and go eat)! But your right, they don't have any right to be a 'christian' agency. I'm currently stationed at Ft Bliss (ElPaso), Texas where nearly 93% of the local pop is Roman Catholic and alot of it bleeds over! I wish I got my hands on a survey.

Misty, Thank you for your help and support!

Natalie, I want to start by saying that you do have a right to your opinion and your right to choose to serve or not to serve. That said, your last comment has came out a bit hostile whether it's real or percieved. You don't have to like the war, I know a number of military who don't like it. But to call myself, my husband, and other honest serving military men and women "war criminals" is highly uncalled for. I'm curious to know what your knowledge of ROE are, along with your source for coming up with numbers in the "millions". As far as money goes, we are not rich, but, we have a pretty more comfortable than average lifestyle than most civilians we know. At this point, I'm willing to still believe your comment was intended to help; however, for future reference I would not start a conversation by attacking us (any military member) as a "war criminal" and expect to gain positive results. I can completely understand you may well have some valid points, but you must be more concisious of how you come across. Name calling and hostility puts people off and detracts from even the most valid of points.

Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 17, 2009 at 2:46pm

Mrs. Keligurl-
A previous and now departed poster listed the code of conduct rules for the swearing in ceremony and quoted that you are allowed to affirm instead of um.. be helped by god.
He had it c&p from somewhere. Not sure how true it was, but I'd look it up if I were you.
Further, any more war criminal or off topic comments in THIS THREAD will be deleted.
Start your own blog or discussion or group if it suits you, and I will extend the exact same courtesy of deleting any hijacking that takes place there. Let's try and keep all posts on par with what the author is discussing, please. The internet is a big place. We have threads for a reason. It helps everyone sort out discussions by title and category. Thanks.

Comment by Frank on May 17, 2009 at 3:23pm

Mrs Kelligurl,
I think I top your conundrum of being stationed in Fort Bliss. I am stationed in Vicenza, Italy...home of Catholicism...The Vatican is only a few hours train ride away. Though I do know how you feel, having my last duty station been at Bragg which is surrounded by the Southern Baptists. I used to have a saying, "There is stupid and then theirs Southern Baptists."

Comment by mrs kelligurl on May 17, 2009 at 3:57pm

Thank you Misty!!! I did see his comment, I just couldn't reply at the time. I wished I had known this prior to my re-up, believe me, I know now though.

Frank, ohhh, I was raised around Southern Baptists and attened 4 yrs at a private Southern Baptist School---if there is a such thing as hell--I did my time there!!..lol Wow, we can just say "Weirdo's". I would love to visit the Vatican, I send e-mails all the time, but with no response to date..hehe. I can imagine what it's like there, they are pretty bad here in El Paso. The local population seems to need to start every function off with a ceremonial thanks to 'god', and I'm thinking of starting a picture collection of the amount of yards that have shrines to the "Virgin Mary'..unbelievable.

Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 18, 2009 at 9:45am

...and yet it won't get you out of jury duty in most places. ~le sigh~

Comment by Laura on May 20, 2009 at 3:13pm

I would definitely contact Mr. Weinstein, just to find out what your options are. We attorneys can be very helpful. :) I'm sure he'd be able to give you a rundown on your options off the top of his head, most likely for free. You have nothing to lose by just calling and getting some information.

Comment by Johnny on July 6, 2009 at 1:09pm

Wikipedia of all places!! I was doing some research for a response on Facebook (a claim that the oath of enlistment had been changed, under Bush, to "support and defend the President of the United States" instead of "support and defend the Constitution of the United States").

Army Regulation 610-210 governs the Army enlistment program and provides a specific exemption, allowing oaths without the last sentence.

From the Wiki entry:

Note that the last sentence is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection, as is true of all oaths administered by the United States government. Article Six of the United States Constitution requires that there be no religious test for public office. In addition, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission are examples of government policies and agencies preventing discrimination on the basis of religion. Both theists and nontheists have dropped the last sentence on religious grounds due to their beliefs against religious oaths. Army Regulation 610-210 governs the Army enlistment program and provides a specific exemption, allowing oaths without the last sentence.

Comment by Reggie on July 6, 2009 at 1:28pm

...and Johnny hits a home run!

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