Comment by Rick on August 27, 2011 at 10:25am

@Patrick: I have never dismissed a christian before giving them a chance to speak. Only after I hear them speak am I able to decide whether or not they’re a nutcase.

 

Not all christians are nutcases. Some are able to remain rational while holding onto a single irrational belief… Others let that irrational belief invade every aspect of their thoughts and actions.

 

As for arguing opinion as fact, I’d love to see your list of opinions atheists use that aren’t based in fact.

 

And there you go…  “Atheists can no more disprove the existence of something they claim not to believe in…” It’s stupid arguments like this that get your opinion dismissed. This argument has already been shown to be worthless. The response to your argument is outlined by Dustin.

 

You actually weren’t doing too bad for yourself until you resorted to the usual jive-ass drivel.

Comment by Cody Kirchner on August 27, 2011 at 10:35am

   In my humble opinion, one thing that must be kept in mind when thinking of beliefs is the end result. Beliefs like those of santa claus or magical unicorns are usually held by children, or adults who are too mentally inept to actually have any non-comedic effect on the lives of the rest of us. If you don't believe in the unicorn, the most vicious reprisal you may face is being called a stupid head, or some other childish insult of the kind; admittedly, not all that lethal.

 Religion, on the other hand, has dire consequences for those who do not believe in it. Whether it be in the metaphysical sense, where your thrown into a lake of boiling fire for all eternity, or for a number of years, depending on the dogma. Of course, no one can prove hell exists, but that's beside the point. The point is, that not believing whens you a sun tan that no SPF can prevent, the sun tan of godly wrath.

 Of course, there is a much more real consequence of not agreeing with or not believing in a certain dogma of religious basis. I am referring of course to getting your ass blown up. Of course, the end result could be having your head blown off, your head chopped off, being strapped into a chair full of spikes until you bleed to death, being hung, drawn and quartered, drown, shot, stabbed, beaten to death, burned at the stake, and I could continue down an extremely long list of very violent and painful things that will eventually kill you; but not until after they've taught you several hundred different ways to beg for death.

  Of course, not all religions will kill you; or I should say, not all religious people will kill you. Some of them just want your life to be run exactly as they see fit. They want their beliefs taught in your schools, to your children, and they want their beliefs nailed to your courtroom walls, and they want their beliefs to govern who you can have sex with, in what position, where, and how many times in a given period. They want your life to conform to their beliefs, and if your an atheist, we can safely assume that these are beliefs you do not agree with, and which you do not wish being shoved upon you or your children.

 So, just to recap here, unicorns you get called a stupid head, religion, you get shot, or just have your life controlled by a system you don't agree with. Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks we should laugh at the first, and be very very afraid of allowing the second to continue any farther in our society.

 If you want to believe something, fine, believe it. However, the minute you put it in public, whether it is to debate it, or to try and force it into a law, you lose the ability to keep it hidden. Unhidden things are subject to criticism, and criticism from people who will probably not take your tender feelings into consideration before criticizing. Thus, I say, if you want to have your beliefs respected, shut up about them. Don't tell me I'm wrong for my beliefs, don't tell me your right, don't say you'll pray for me, don't say god loves me, nothing. Shut up, keep it to yourself, and don't try to make laws for anyone but yourself, and those under your control, (that is to say, your children). Problem solved.

Comment by Joseph on August 27, 2011 at 10:42am

@Ron V
Thanks, I'm well aware of the issues and controversy. Perhaps we can pick it up in another thread sometime.

@Patrick
Do you believe in a soul? Where is it produced or sustained in the body? Can it be measured or detected? If it is not part of the body, then where does it reside? Does it exist in space-time at all? Finally, how do you know these things? What evidence can you produce? Now substitute the term "linga sharira" for "soul" and answer the same questions.

Comment by Atheist Exile on August 27, 2011 at 10:51am

@Patrick,

Something definitely happens when you die -- you quit breathing, eating, walking, fucking and sinning.  Those are the types of things you quit doing when you die.  There's just one obvious thing you do when you die: you decompose into a gooey mess.  The brain is the first to go gooey and ooze out your ears.  We all know this is true.

If you want to claim that something else happens -- something unseen -- then YOU are making an extraordinary claim and the burden of proof is on you.  You think the soul goes somewhere?  Like heaven or hell?  Or maybe you believe the soul lays dormant until Judgment Day then we all awake to the be judged?  If you're a really progressive Christian, then you might believe that God, in the end, sends everybody to heaven.

So where do we stand now?  Stinking, rotting, gooey corpses or some sort of afterlife that nobody can possibly know anything about?  The afterlife certainly sounds better, doesn't it?  But I defy you or anybody else to point to a single coherent reason to believe there is an afterlife.  Quoting scripture or doctrine does not count.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." ~Carl Sagan

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on August 27, 2011 at 11:35am

@ Kasu - Respect - you have it figured. I agree but am sometimes not very tolerant of the delusional when they argue but won't listen.

Comment by Chris on August 27, 2011 at 11:36am

I agree that respect is earned. Common courtesy is deserved. And you can undeserve it quickfast by making broad, inaccurate assumptions or preaching, whichever side of an argument you take. Disrespect is earned, as well. But the real issue is that we all come in the package we come in. Our philosophies, experiences and styles are not ever going to be monolithic. For every Martin Luther King Jr there needs to be a Malcom X. They work in concert, whether they see it that way or not. If friendly, get along atheists get results, it is probably because there are unfriendly, fuck you atheists waiting and watching. You can be either, and you will be one or the other, maybe both. Trying to suggest that we should only be one or the other, though, is naive and probably just plain wrong.

Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on August 27, 2011 at 9:11pm

I agree that we should not be compelled to respect religion. However, trying to convince religious people that anything they believe is not sacred and infallible is a waste of time. They're totally brainwashed. They may here you, but they are incapable of processing anything you say in a normal way. After a while of doing what you did I just decided that it was pointless. I still don't respect religion. I just ignore it in everyday life unless I find the church-state boundary in danger.

Comment by Hobert Church on August 27, 2011 at 10:55pm

Wow, I honestly didn't expect such a massive stream of comments on this submission.  I appreciate all of the comments and discussion, and only wish to clarify a couple of things: Regarding circumcision, I admit that I was ill-informed about the "benefits" of it, and in the couple of days I have spent researching the practice, have the desire to find the bastard who mutilated my magnificent penis and throttle him.  With respect (pun intended) to my comments about being an asshole, I remarked that this is the way I am perceived, not the way I intend to be.  When I say that we "must be assholes", I am simply stating that we should not tread lightly around the ridiculous concepts that mark religious precepts.  The fact that some religious people are "indoctrinated, brainwashed victims" does not escape me, and I have nothing but pity for these people, especially the children.  However, I have no time for someone who is presented with logic and as close to factual evidence as they have ever encountered and dismisses it out of hand.  Willful ignorance is not something that I can tolerate.  I do not believe that it is ever pointless to stop combating religion in all forms, but especially in specific forms that involve women's rights, the rights of homosexuals, matters of race, church-state separation, violence in any form, and child indoctrination.  So, basically, I am especially opposed to every tenet of every religion that has ever existed.  

Also, when I say that I'm an asshole, I mean only that I have been perceived as one by those who have been offended by my dismissal of what they hold sacred.  I point you towards this submission to memebase.  

To me, this is hilarious.  To the christians, it's highly offensive.  These are the types of things that make me an asshole to them.  I also have no problem making 9/11 jokes, Hitler jokes, dead baby jokes or any sort of religious joke.  I don't view any one thing as being more off-limits than another, simply because there is humor in everything if you look hard enough for it.

Okay, I'm done for now.

-Scarecrow

Comment by Brian Wood on August 28, 2011 at 7:10am

I respect humans as humans, but it is my calling to mock and sneer at their asinine religious beliefs, as they sneer at my faith that canned beets make women bowlegged.

Comment by Brian Wood on August 28, 2011 at 7:13am

Once, I was being an insufferable atheist asshole to some christ-tards who were picketing a gay pride parade.  A fat guy with a sign called me a "godless reprobate."  I marched across the intervening space and said, "First, gluttony is one of the seven deadlies, fat guy, and second, I've spent over fifty years trying to become a REAL ASSHOLE, and the best you can come up with is 'godless reprobate'"?

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