Comment by Gary C on July 11, 2011 at 11:38pm

My $0.02 - We all react differently, but I am not going to behave differently if I am just going about my business because somebody else "might" be nervous about me.  Rest assured, I won't be trying to pick anybody up at 4:00 AM in the elevator of a strange city - at that time with the jet lag at all, I won't be interested in much other than sleeping.

I remember a funny story somebody told me, that seems to fit here (I don't know if it is true or an urban legend but in either case it fits) about an English or South African woman who was jet lagged and unable to sleep while vacationing at a Las Vegas hotel.  So she goes down to pull the slots won a minor jackpot.  Instead of cashing it in at the desk, she wanted to go upstairs to show her husband her windfall - a small bucket of coins.  (This was about 2:00 AM or so)  She got on the elevator and was very nervous to find three black guys get on with her - one small skinny dude and two very large, athletic looking men.  As one of them spoke to her and reached across to the control panel she freaked out, thinking she was going to be robbed and tossed the bucket of coins at them screaming "take it, just don't hurt me!".  To her surprise, instead of robbing her the three men broke out laughing, and the two bigger ones picked the scattered coins off the floor, put them back in the bucket and one handed it back, as she got off on her floor.  Later she found out her hotel stay had been entirely paid for, and a note was left at the front desk to her attention: "Thanks for making me laugh - - sincerely Eddie Murphy."  The two other guys were evidently his bodyguards!

 

Moral of the story: Don't make too many assumptions about the other persons intentions.  Even at 4:00 AM in a hotel elevator!

 

Comment by Sean the Blogonaut on July 12, 2011 at 12:02am

Tracked down the original video of Rebecca's.  Must say that I agree 100% with what she's said(what came after I am not so sure about).

 

She was at a Atheist conference talked about sexism and objectifying women(ie not seeing them as people with feelings and fears) and talks about how the talk flew over this one guys head, because his actions were an example of exactly what she was talking about.

 

I took her to be saying "guys(specifically, intelligent open minded freethinking guys), heads-up this is what makes me and other women uncomfortable, perhaps think about how the other person might feel".

 

I don't take it to mean that you can't start chatting up a man or women in an elevator, but that you need to be aware of how other people might perceive you.

Comment by Jabinaise on July 12, 2011 at 12:07am

True. That is something that should be considered. But to throw Dawkins under the bus for mentioning it in a post?

Comment by Sean the Blogonaut on July 12, 2011 at 12:08am

An interesting look at rape and sexual predation, how offenders use language and social mores to perpetrate rape and sexual assault can be found in de becker's A Gift of Fear.

It's certainly not as simple as "if I guys gonna rape you he's gonna rape you".  There's are complex interplay of sounding out, breaking down, pursuit, convincing that can go on. 

Comment by Jabinaise on July 12, 2011 at 12:08am

If I am wrong in defining feminism tell me how.

Comment by Derek on July 12, 2011 at 12:53am

"Ok, I'm walking behind this girl, and she's on her own, if I slow down to keep my distance I might seem like I'm stalking her till we are in a quiet place, if I speed up to overtake it might look like I'm about to jump her."

You think about how your actions might be interpreted, not what you intend. Simple.



For the record I'd go past in a well lit area or cross the road and run a block or two...

 

Are you serious? Would you really run a block or two? The most I would do is stop and pretend to take a phonecall while slowing down until she was way out of sight. I realize women don't know if i'm an attacker or not but the fact remains; the overwhelming majority of men are not rapists and as Gary points out: I will not change my behaviour because of somebody's false beliefs (to such an extent as running two blocks) about me. That might sound harsh but there ya go. More critical thinking needed and less kneejerk reactions.

 

Comment by Dustin on July 12, 2011 at 1:23am

Yeah , running two blocks is a bit extreme.  

 

Cause when you run a block or two you might just end up walking behind another lonely female and if you stop to pretend you're using your phone another female might begin walking towards you  LOL. ..........

 

Or you could just proposition ever girl and then they will run away from you instead of the other way around.  (Just kidding , don't get your panties in a bunch)  

 

 

 

Comment by Derek on July 12, 2011 at 1:27am

LOL Dustin

Comment by Rick on July 12, 2011 at 3:26am

Maybe I’m just insensitive, but dude asked her to hang and have some coffee. It sounds to me like someone was reading too much into it and blew the whole thing out of proportion. I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in ourselves that we walk around with blinders and fail to recognize innocence when we encounter it. That’s just my take on it. Only Dawkins knows what his intentions were, but it sounds rather straightforward.

The real conversation piece, however, is Dawkins’ reply to the situation. He just sounds like a dick.

Comment by Daniel Clear on July 12, 2011 at 8:29am

I think it's wrong to frame the discussion in terms of intention and real or imagined threats. The fact is, when it comes to propositioning another person there's a personal space issue.

 

an elevator is a poor place to do it as by nature you've already violated personal space which is why shared journeys in them are always a bit tense. you try and look away but some genius decided to line the box with mirrors so there's lots of discomfort.

 

a better place to ask a lady back is a public bar but it's the same thing if you get her trapped in a corner first.

 

I don't think there's any need to question whether she had a right to feel as she did, the fact is, she just did. that's nature for you. the reason us gentlemen are expected to learn social skills is for this very reason, so we can converse with people without making them feel treatened.

 

I was somewhat surprised with Richard Dawkins response though and he's rightly had a backlash for it although boycotting books is an overreaction. If people hear this and decide they don't want to read his books that's fine but escalating to this level of mob response is IMO overkill. It should be enough to take someone to task on what they do wrong, if it isn't then you loose the moral highground. his books after all do not promote misogynism

 

Personally, my tip for drunk amourous guys out there is I like to keep the mask and hoodie on so women can't see my creepy expression...

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