Comment by Nelson on December 15, 2009 at 5:51am

um, in a word, no.

first of all, though the placebo effect isn't completely understood it is understood well enough that to say it is a process whereby the body is inspired to heal itself is plainly false. neither is there any kind of energy force that causes a species to change in order to adapt, improving the body's features to make survival easier.

i'm struggling not to sound abrasive here but frankly you're spouting mumbo-jumbo.

why when scientists agree that the placebo effect isn't completely understood are you comfortable describing it the way you do? what in the world are you talking about when you refer to an energy force that can cause a species to change in order to adapt to survive? (sure, radiation can and does cause genetic mutations which in turn produces genetic diversity for natural selection to act upon but i hardly think that anyone would mistake what you said for radiation caused genetic mutations.)

no, i don't think any living things are "spirit elements". do you? why would you? what's your evidence for thinking any thing is a spirit element, much less living things, much less all things? what exactly is your definition of "spirit element" to begin with?

you began by saying that you don't believe in anything supernatural but what is this mystical spirit energy force if not supernatural? how is it measured? what is it's mechanism of action?

Comment by Paul Tourville on December 15, 2009 at 5:52am

Hi, Rick....

I use the word spirit as a "lacking a better word" placeholder for the blending of the intellectual and emotional selves. I don't think there is any sort of "conscious energy" which survives bodily death.

No offense intended, but I think you may be wandering off in to the supernatural weeds, here.

Cheers,

Paul

Comment by Rick Watts on December 15, 2009 at 6:25am

It is an effect that is not understood by the scientific community and I am aware that they are not comfortable with a term like spirit/spirituality (although some atheists feel that they are spiritual beings in nature) The scientific people do have a term for the effect as 'emergent phenomena'.
Sometimes I think atheists tend to be too sceptical but atheists I have talked to agree that its better to be highly sceptical to be too imaginative.. um, perhaps like me.

Comment by Rick Watts on December 15, 2009 at 6:53am

Well then I gotta ask.. what can cause a species to change its physical characteristics in order to adapt to a different environment? It is a natural phenomena that does occur.

Comment by Rick Watts on December 15, 2009 at 7:12am

Its not survival of the fittest but survival of those who are able to adapt which may necessitate physical change. How do you think evolution occurs?

Comment by doubtingSteve on December 15, 2009 at 8:29am

I've bought bigger fans, lighter clothing, a house with a pool and dark window tint since I moved to Texas.

Comment by Rick Watts on December 15, 2009 at 9:37am

A guy told me that his wife evolved a larger butt because she spends a lot of time in a sitting position.

Comment by Doug Reardon on December 15, 2009 at 9:39am

I have several friends who say that I am a very spiritual person. I don't have the slightest idea what that means.

Comment by Rick Watts on December 15, 2009 at 9:54am

I can't help but think that spirit/spiritual is or can be a natural element apart from supernatural god. I think your friends see you in a way perhaps, as being in tune with nature; like a person with a great depth of understanding of life and life forces.

Comment by Dave G on December 15, 2009 at 11:03am

Rick, I'm trying to understand where you are coming from here. Are you trying to associate an as-yet-undiscovered 'energy force' with the process of evolution?

We have a very good idea how evolution works, and I'm afraid that undetected energy fields don't have a hand in it. A species evolves due to random changes in alleles (genetic code) acted upon by natural selection. If a member of a species living in a cold climate happens upon a mutation that allows its fur to provide greater insulation, therefore granting it an advantage, it it then more likely to survive and have more time/energy/resources to reproduce, thus increasing the change of its mutation being propagated to the next generation. If the mutation is advantageous enough, it will spread throughout the general population and thus the species will acquire that trait. There is no directing force behind this.

I highly recommend that you pick up a book such as The Greatest Show on Earth or Why Evolution Is True, wherein you'll find loads of information on the mechanics and processes of evolution.

On a more generic, non-evolutionarily-specific level, no, I do not believe in a 'spirit energy force' possessed by all living things. (It sounds very Jedi) I have not seen any evidence that would indicate such a thing. The placebo effect, while not completely understood, is known to at least consist of biochemical responses in the brain. One reason that our bodies have receptors that are affected by opiates, for example, is that our body can produce opiates naturally, and it can do so when we're expecting to get pain relief from a placebo.

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