When we don't talk about God... pt 1 Politics, Religion and Sports...

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There’s very little that we can actually talk about that wouldn’t, in some way, correlate, and in one way or another be linked too, if not be directly affiliated with God.  It doesn’t matter if your conversations linger on the weather, which is set in motion by its’ creator, or if you prefer to discuss the fundamentals of Tchaikovsky and the music of the romantic period, which flows from the creative and passionate parts of our persons, which are systemic of the image we bear, being that of God Himself.  Perhaps you prefer to discuss the health and progress of the years’ crop which is a direct result of both your efforts to work the ground, mans original job given by God, and natures affects on them, again something set in motion by the creator.

            However we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses that fervently work hard to avoid the very thought of bringing God into a conversation (yes even ‘Christians’).  There are those who desperately want nothing to do with God, or at least a god that would expect anything from them, or maybe a god that didn’t offer the easy answers, or was too confusing, or made one feel as though they were ‘bad’.  These are those who are either unwilling to allow any god other themselves have any say in their ‘reality’, or they are simply ignorant about God.  Although even a “proper education” about God does not guarantee ones willingness to participate with Him, much less believe in, or want anything to do with Him. 

            And as this is the world that we live in, God gets lumped in with politics, because God is viewed as a system of control.  Or He’s thrown in with sports, because it always depends on who’s team you side with.  God becomes a taboo cliché.  “Don’t talk about politics, or religion, and stay away from sports if you want to play it safe.”  So our conversations, no matter how relevant to God and the one who gave meaning to language, are driven into a dark corner where we have to be ever so careful not to mention a perfect God or how much He loves us. 

            Yet even Christians are riddled with misunderstandings about who God is and how He fits into a world that is crazy and angry, and sad, and confused, and looking for meaning.  And so they feel as though they are backed into a corner, yet in reality they are finding themselves in the very same place that those who don’t understand God and our relationship with Him, are in. 

            So because we don’t know how to talk about God specifically, we avoid the conversation altogether.  We are bombarded with the demand to “shut up already” by those we thought were safe to talk too.  This mentality then comes to work with us, comes into our homes, even to church with us, and we are so burdened with fear of being unsure of who is safe to talk about God with.  This fear leaves us speechless and powerless, and ultimately builds in us the same attitude that caused us to remain silent in the first place.  Where we then adopt the “don’t talk to me about god” view. 

            There are innumerable conversations every day where God is present and moving, and relevant, and good where we juke and dodge and do whatever we can to avoid the ‘imposing concept’ of god.  It is a conversation that you can run from but will never be able to completely hide from, as it is ultimately the conversation everyone is having without intending too.  So instead of intentionally and tactfully looking for ways to avoid Him, be ready to be encountered by Him and moved by Him and used by Him to be empowered to talk about politics, and religion and sports.

Views: 675

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 4:18pm

just a thought... if you spend time enjoying fiction, as you belief God to be, there's no harm in spending some time on the subject...

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 4:19pm

btw I can do these things in the context of the conversation...

Comment by MikeLong on February 1, 2014 at 5:07pm

" there's no harm in spending some time on the subject"

We've got limited time - why waste it. The God brand of fiction is no fun at all unless one is willing and able to immerse one's self so fully that they believe it to be real. There are some "out there" who LOVE Elvis Presley to such an extent that they are able to ignore all evidence to the contrary and truly believe that he is not dead (and that they saw him driving a '57 Chevy in the mall parking lot last week). They have exactly the same electro-chemical reaction (called love) that you have when you contemplate your Lord and Savior. And you share exactly the same basis in reality - zero.

Theists who float through TA ALWAYS ignore the rock-bottom foundation for their belief. Forget all this abiding Love, and "your" reality, and "in my heart" and actually ANSWER the very first response to your posting from Reg - namely, " What does his voice sound like? If you cannot hear his voice then it is only in your head. If he is present do you claim to see him? If not he is only in your head. So if you cannot actually see him or hear his voice how do you know he is present. What evidence have you".

Atheists, when contemplating whether Elvis is alive, or Santa Claus, or leprechauns, or God, or the Easter Bunny - all of which are equally silly - come away thinking, "How COULD people be SO stupid" - which is exactly how you regard all other forms of supernatural nonsense save your own minority delusion.

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 5:41pm

Belle... yes 'fallen' is an accurate term...

MikeLong - So I cannot hear Him audibly, nor see Him directly (physically) but to understand how He does interact stems from the acceptance that we (humans) were once able to see Him physically and hear Him audibly, but chose to walk away from that relationship.  Now ones willing to 'hear' or 'see' Him is based on our willingness.  I don't 'feel love' for God I look at the evidence both in my personal experience, in life, even in science, and logic and reason and cannot come to any other conclusion but that God must exist, and through evidences and proofs I have landed on a specific source to know what God is then like...

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 6:19pm

I would argue that there is plenty you believe in that you cannot see, or hear or prove

Comment by Gallup's Mirror on February 1, 2014 at 6:20pm

So I cannot hear Him audibly, nor see Him directly (physically) but

The same applies to leprechauns, Superman and Gandalf the wizard: they exist, but only in the imagination, not in empirical reality.

to understand how He does interact stems from the acceptance that we (humans) were once able to see Him physically and hear Him audibly, but chose to walk away from that relationship. 

A claim, presented without evidence, and hereby dismissed without evidence. It's same song and dance we've seen in here over and over, Jonathan. Let's take it from the top:

Crackpot: God exists!
Me: Evidence?
Crackpot: There is none.
Me: I don't believe you.

It ends there, except for the crackpot employing some bit of dishonesty to obfuscate or deny it:

  • He'll shift the burden of evidence onto me. ("Prove God doesn't exist!").
  • He'll claim to have evidence when he does not. ("Lookee here! Pretty waterfalls! Snuggles with wifey! Purely abstract mathematics! That's evidence!").
  • He'll say he doesn't need evidence. ("God is too big for evidence!")
  • He'll completely ignore the request for evidence and won't respond at all. (This is very popular.)
  • He'll restate the request for evidence as an accusation or insult. ("You hate God!" "How dare you question my faith!")
  • He'll pin God to ignorance. ("You can't explain X so God is the only explanation!")

And on and on and on. Anything but evidence.

There is no case to be made for the existence of God. There is nothing to debate, nothing to consider; no evidence, no data, not a shred of the scientific whatsoever. The rest is just the outraged caterwauling of the crackpot, desperately insisting that any such "debate" over God exists at all.

This is why I dismiss you and your ilk.

Now ones willing to 'hear' or 'see' Him is based on our willingness.  I don't 'feel love' for God I look at the evidence both in my personal experience, in life, even in science, and logic and reason and cannot come to any other conclusion but that God must exist, and through evidences and proofs I have landed on a specific source to know what God is then like...

You're actually claiming to have conclusive scientific evidence for God?

Okay, Jonathan. I'll bite. Let's see this evidence.

Everyone else: brace yourselves. Here begins the inevitable meltdown.

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on February 1, 2014 at 6:21pm

Hi Jonathan, could you give an example of such "evidences and proofs" that are not just subjective experiences?

Comment by Ed on February 1, 2014 at 6:37pm

Jonathan,

Welcome to TA. 

Considering sports and God's involvement in it in some way, since you alluded to the fact that God is somehow related to all things/events. I was always bemused by the athletes in martial arts who, after pummeling and beating down their opponent in the most vicious of physical ways, would look skyward and give thanks to their god for their victory. It is a strange dichotomy.

You will make more progress on this site by interacting with it's members by not specifying a particular god but, rather, speak in generalizations. It makes absolutely no sense to any of us that your particular religion is correct and the vast billions of other worshipers on this planet are living a misdirected life that will not lead to any sort of ultimate redemption.

Jonathan, you are a product of your environment and culture. It was a roll of the dice that you ended up being born where you were, raised where you were, and indoctrinated with the religious trappings of your Abrahamic faith. I applaud you if you can try to step back and look at our civilization from an evolutionary standpoint. If you are honest and open with yourself then take time to study the origins of religious thought, going back to animism, then perhaps you can better understand the plethora of religions/cults/superstitions that exist in our world today. The supernatural world is one of invention and it was an attempt to explain that which we did not understand and placate our ignorant fears.  

Comment by MikeLong on February 1, 2014 at 11:13pm

" I look at the evidence both in my personal experience, in life, even in science, and logic and reason"

Please, Jonathan, refrain from using the word "evidence" before you at least look it up - hopefully until you actually understand the concept as it applies to the scientific method. Doing so simply detracts from your credibility even further. You have been asked (on more than one occasion) to present actual evidence. You will, of course, ignore those requests - as theist visitors to TA ALWAYS do. They quickly steer away from reality.

"Now ones willing to 'hear' or 'see' Him is based on our willingness."

Absolutely. Neither Elvis nor God ever appears except to those who have already deluded themselves of their existence. My friend, sadly you are simply deluded. Were to actually examine the evidence available you might find it much more likely that Santa Claus exists. We've all SEEN him on many occasions and gifts DO magically appear under the Christmas tree of good children.. ;-)

The fact is that the existence of God CANNOT be supported by factual evidence.

If you want to defend your belief in terms of "your" reality, or your personal experience, that's fine. We will, of course, place you in a category in whose reality Elvis is still alive or those who sincerely believe in leprechauns. There IS NO DIFFERENCE between ANY of these outlandish claims of supernatural powers - except in your head.

Comment by MikeLong on February 1, 2014 at 11:30pm

"I would argue that there is plenty you believe in that you cannot see, or hear or prove"

You've come to the wrong place to make such an assertion. Again a skeptic looks at the evidence and the source of the evidence. But equally we look at the claim. If someone claims that they've been to a place called India, I admit that I have never seen it. But, not only is the evidence strong that such a place exists, the contention lies firmly within the realm of "conditionally acceptable". There is no reason I wouldn't accept India - especially in light of the preponderance of evidence. However when someone claims the existence of a magic, invisible daddy in the sky who created the entire universe, such a remarkable claim requires far more than hearsay evidence to support it - it would require a remarkable cache of proofs. In fact no compelling evidence exists AT ALL.

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