God's Will and Human Freedom
I am sure that most of you, weather you be Atheists of Theists have heard a whole lot about God's Will. This is thrown out like verbal diarrhea every time that someone dies or a natural disaster occurs. I have often questioned why people are so quick to say that a kid that gets caught in the crossfire of a gang shooting received a "gift" and that it was God's Will that she get shot and killed in a park. How is that a gift? What proof is there that she is in a better place? Who are you to make such claims? It may sound nice and comforting at the time, but it is not all that it is cracked up to be. As the title of this post implies, I am going to be talking about God's will and our own freedom. Does God's Will take away our freedom?
To start let us look at the Frankfurt Cases. This is a thought experiment that involves two cases that are identical, except for one part.
Case 1
There are two men: Smith and Jones. Smith is pointing a gun at Jones and is deciding whether or not to shoot him. There is also an evil demon that COULD control the outcome. In this case Jones decides not to shoot Jones, however the evil demon forces Smith to pull the trigger and kill Jones.
Case 2
There are two men: Smith and Jones. Smith is pointing a gun at Jones and is deciding whether or not to shoot him. There is also an evil demon that COULD control the outcome. In this case Smith decides to shoot Jones with his own free will, and the evil demon does nothing.
Take a good look at these cases. What do you notice? First off, they are identical except for one part, which is where the evil demon comes in. The other thing is that the outcome was the same, but the method of getting to that outcome was different. If it was Smith's choice to shoot Jones or if the evil demon commanded him to, the result was the exact same. So, my question is, if "God's Will be done" then the end result will always be the same. So are we really free to make our own decision? If we are, what is the point of making them if it is just going to achieve God's Will in the end?
Another thing that I question is how a person would know what God's Will is. I really don't have a concrete answer for how one would definitively know what God's Will is, but I can speculate as to why it would be appealing to chalk up the bad things in life it "it was God's Will".
The same sort of thing happens (in someone's mind) when there is a conspiracy about something like 9/11. Sometimes when something horrible happens it scares people, which is normal. However, being humans it is in our nature to want an explanation of why something happened. In the case of conspiracy theories Jodi Dean says,
People hate thinking about, in the flash on an eye terrorist bomber...
I think that the same thing happens in the minds of Theists when a natural disaster, like Hurricane Katrina, occurs. It is much more comforting to think that there is a plan in place. People don't like to think that bad things can just happen, they would rather be optimistic about some plan that would take them to a better place (heaven supposedly, but I'll save that for another post). Michael Martin said it best in his book Atheism: A Philosophical Justification -
If pessimism is justified by the evidence, then we must be pessimistic. If we are optimistic when pessimism is justified, we are irrational.
If you are a Theist or an Atheist, please leave your comments and opinions, I would love to know more about the topic from all perspectives. Bear in mind, however, I will research what you say if I think that you haven't done your research.
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Comment by onyango makagutu on March 19, 2013 at 2:16pm -
Angela, when you say you imagine god would be free, is there a situation god if one were to exist that he/she/it or they would act contra their nature? How free would they be and if they were to act against their nature would they still be god?
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Comment by Real Life James Bond on March 19, 2013 at 2:28pm -
@Strega I couldn't have said it better myself!
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Comment by Sagacious Hawk on March 19, 2013 at 2:28pm -
Strega, I did some research previously to figure that out. Approximately 25-30% of the Catholic laity in the US thinks it's literally true. Most Catholics don't think it is anything other than a story. Original Sin does not fall apart for them, because they see it as something akin a metaphorical explanation. It's somewhat similar to how Aesop's Fables have a moral that they try to depict through a narrative.
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Comment by Jorita on March 19, 2013 at 2:30pm -
Loved the Dawkins link thank you archaeopteryx. To me it is as if the christians don't read furhter than the bible. If I was going to join a political party I will want to know where they come from , how they origenated, what is there objective, what do they stand for, how do they want to achieve this, and what am I to gain from joining them. once I have looked at all of this then I will decide. I look at religion in the same way, and to be objective you have to go back to how did it origenate. If I look at the different cultures and how there religion developed understanding that all of this started in a time when there was no explanation for , plagues or floods ect. If I look at all the 'god' figures from all cultures, what the criteria was to be a god, how they were worshiped, what you gained from worshiping them what they would do if you did not worship them. There rules and regulations. It is all the same, the only difference is today that by brute force the people who believed in the biblical god was told by there god to wipe out all those who did not support there belief. No different to Muslims emposing there belief or the christian emposing there belief. No different to political parties in Africa wiping out opposing parties with violence or modernday genocide. All religions are based on mythological figures and the ones that they inheret from their culture. God does not have a will, the will we speak of is created by man, the power he has is created by man and all of these beliefs are maintained by man.
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Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2013 at 2:41pm -
Sagacious, I see the difference as being, a moral reflects the folly of various behaviors, whereas the theme of Original Sin runs all through the Bible as established fact, and was the sole purpose of Yeshua sacrificing himself on the cross. I've yet to hear of anyone committing suicide-by-cop, which is essentially what Yeshua did, over any of Aesop's fables.
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Comment by Sagacious Hawk on March 19, 2013 at 2:50pm
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Well, Arch, I did say somewhat similar. As for Jesus on the cross... it's Baptism that rids a person of Original Sin. The best explanation I have for Jesus's death was to make it easier for believers to get into heaven and so non-Jews could, too. He went through all that trouble to establish a new Covenant and was the stand in for the lamb traditionally sacrificed on the Passover so his dad could have more company.
That's the short version, at least.
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Comment by Sagacious Hawk on March 19, 2013 at 2:54pm
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Oh! I meant to further explain the somewhat similar comment. Dr Bob already pointed out how the story of Adam and Eve from a theist perspective does "reflect the folly of various behaviors."
"In the tale of Adam and Eve, their choices matter. They bring death into the world, and unmake God's intent. They cause pain, and purgatory, and their example leads to the hell of having one of their children murder another, just as our choices of casual racist language can lead others to take grievous racial actions, our venial lack of kindness to an Asperger's kid or our paranoia in stockpiling weapons can lead to the hell of having kindergartners shot to death in Newtown."
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Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2013 at 3:09pm
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RE: "He went through all that trouble to establish a new Covenant" - don't you imagine he smacked his forehead and went, "D'oh!" when they invented the handshake?
Yes, I read that too, and as much as I respect Doc Bob's intellect, what I see, whenever I hear an explanation like that, is the image of a theist in a maze, headed for point "A," under which is inscribed, "God Is Good!" - the theist will take whatever twists and turns necessary, to get from where he is, to point "A,"no matter how circuitous the route.
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Comment by Strega on March 19, 2013 at 3:32pm -
^^ I think of it as the wriggle factor
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Comment by Real Life James Bond on March 19, 2013 at 3:59pm
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@Jorita I really like what you said at the end "God does not have a will, the will we speak of is created by man, the power he has is created by man and all of these beliefs are maintained by man." If one was to look through history they would find this to be true. Excellent point!
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