God's Will and Human Freedom
I am sure that most of you, weather you be Atheists of Theists have heard a whole lot about God's Will. This is thrown out like verbal diarrhea every time that someone dies or a natural disaster occurs. I have often questioned why people are so quick to say that a kid that gets caught in the crossfire of a gang shooting received a "gift" and that it was God's Will that she get shot and killed in a park. How is that a gift? What proof is there that she is in a better place? Who are you to make such claims? It may sound nice and comforting at the time, but it is not all that it is cracked up to be. As the title of this post implies, I am going to be talking about God's will and our own freedom. Does God's Will take away our freedom?
To start let us look at the Frankfurt Cases. This is a thought experiment that involves two cases that are identical, except for one part.
Case 1
There are two men: Smith and Jones. Smith is pointing a gun at Jones and is deciding whether or not to shoot him. There is also an evil demon that COULD control the outcome. In this case Jones decides not to shoot Jones, however the evil demon forces Smith to pull the trigger and kill Jones.
Case 2
There are two men: Smith and Jones. Smith is pointing a gun at Jones and is deciding whether or not to shoot him. There is also an evil demon that COULD control the outcome. In this case Smith decides to shoot Jones with his own free will, and the evil demon does nothing.
Take a good look at these cases. What do you notice? First off, they are identical except for one part, which is where the evil demon comes in. The other thing is that the outcome was the same, but the method of getting to that outcome was different. If it was Smith's choice to shoot Jones or if the evil demon commanded him to, the result was the exact same. So, my question is, if "God's Will be done" then the end result will always be the same. So are we really free to make our own decision? If we are, what is the point of making them if it is just going to achieve God's Will in the end?
Another thing that I question is how a person would know what God's Will is. I really don't have a concrete answer for how one would definitively know what God's Will is, but I can speculate as to why it would be appealing to chalk up the bad things in life it "it was God's Will".
The same sort of thing happens (in someone's mind) when there is a conspiracy about something like 9/11. Sometimes when something horrible happens it scares people, which is normal. However, being humans it is in our nature to want an explanation of why something happened. In the case of conspiracy theories Jodi Dean says,
People hate thinking about, in the flash on an eye terrorist bomber...
I think that the same thing happens in the minds of Theists when a natural disaster, like Hurricane Katrina, occurs. It is much more comforting to think that there is a plan in place. People don't like to think that bad things can just happen, they would rather be optimistic about some plan that would take them to a better place (heaven supposedly, but I'll save that for another post). Michael Martin said it best in his book Atheism: A Philosophical Justification -
If pessimism is justified by the evidence, then we must be pessimistic. If we are optimistic when pessimism is justified, we are irrational.
If you are a Theist or an Atheist, please leave your comments and opinions, I would love to know more about the topic from all perspectives. Bear in mind, however, I will research what you say if I think that you haven't done your research.
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Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2013 at 12:57pm -
@Strega - as I mentioned in "Genesis, Chapter 2" of my website, the Garden of Eden fable, like many other stories in Genesis, was plagiarized from an ancient Mesopotamian (Akkadian) myth that predates the Bible by nearly 2000 years, as depicted on this Akkadian cylinder seal imprint - note the Tree of Life in the center, an man and a woman on each side, and on the far right, the "subtil serpent":
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Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2013 at 1:04pm
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@Angela - So is the ability to kill, but on a daily basis, we can choose to override it, think of it as a one-day-at-a-time program --
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Comment by Angela Evangelia on March 19, 2013 at 1:09pm
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Richard Dawkins says in that clip that superstitious tendancies in people is part of the human condition .. and if he says it then its true.
If the propensity to be superstitious is innate- natural - instinctive and its part of the human condition, then should we be expecting people to stop being superstitious?
Would that be like asking a wet dog not to shake the water off itself?
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Comment by Strega on March 19, 2013 at 1:12pm -
@Arch You have a great site, and I completely understand your point about the amalgamation of historic beliefs. (anyone who hasn't seen it, I recommend you take a look at it)
What I am trying to establish, is why Professor Robert is so patronising in what he thinks we believe that isn't apparently true, and yet so backward in coming forward to state what he does believe is true. I have so little expectation that he will do this, that I am anticipating that typing my questions is predominantly serving as exercise for my typing fingers - sort of digital sit-ups, if you like :)
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Comment by Unseen on March 19, 2013 at 1:15pm -
I think everyone who's been here for long and participates much knows my position: Free will is impossible. Flat out contradicts the idea that in a physical world everything that happens has a physical cause. Simply because my brain is organic and not a metal machine makes it no less devoid of freedom. The only way to introduce something other than the brain controlling my behavior is to start talking in terms of a spirit. But even then, that would need some sort of physics. We can't believe that the brain would have us do one thing but that somehow a nonphysical entity can come in and make something else happen,
If you believe in free will, you might as well believe in souls, but then you've become religious.
Free will just makes no sense to start with. It's a pair of words that suffer from an inability to be rigorously defined.
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Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2013 at 1:25pm
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@Angela - Let me rephrase your question, and then, you tell me --
Angela: "should we be expecting people to stop being superstitious?"
Translation: "should we be expecting people to stop thinking irrationally?"So what do you think, should we?
The wet dog is shaking unwanted water from his fur - his action fulfills that purpose, cause and effect, and totally rational. What purpose does throwing a pinch of spilled salt over the shoulder serve? Knocking on wood? Wearing your favorite socks to play soccer, because you were wearing them the last time you played, and won?
Back to killing, which is also part of the human condition - should we expect people to stop killing? That would be nice.
So yes, I believe that we can expect people to stop thinking irrationally, despite the fact that irrational thinking is part of the human condition.
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Comment by Professor Robert on March 19, 2013 at 1:30pm -
This software is odd. For some reason I can't reply to individuals here.
@Strega: "Do you believe in the story of Genesis and the Garden of Eden?" Yes, I believe it's a story. In the original Hebrew, it's more of a sort of poem. How many poems do you take literally?
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Comment by Strega on March 19, 2013 at 1:39pm
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@Professor Robert.
I believe the Jabberwocky is a poem too, but when I walk in the woods, I don't take my Vorpal sword.
How many Catholics believe in the Garden of Eden story as fact, and that Earth was Created less than ten thousand years ago? Doesn't the concept of Original Sin and subsequent Redemption flail a bit without it?
(When you post on a blog, the posts are linearly sequential. When you post on a forum thread, the posts are laterally sub-branched to sub-topic of postings)
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Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2013 at 1:52pm
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RE: "Doesn't the concept of Original Sin and subsequent Redemption flail a bit without it?"
Excellent point, Strega - I believe that's checkmate --
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Comment by Real Life James Bond on March 19, 2013 at 2:04pm -
@Melvinotis These are cases based on the Cartesian idea of the Evil Demon that could be deceiving us. You could substitute the evil demon for anything you believe in, Garth Brooks, if you really wanted.
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