Pro-gay: There is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Anti-gay: AIDS!

Pro-gay: AIDS is also caused by dirty needles and heterosexual sex.

Anti-gay: Gay people are more promiscuous, so they make AIDS a bigger problem.

Pro-gay: AIDS is spread mostly by straight people.

Anti-gay: Gay sex is inherently more risky than heterosexual sex.

Pro-gay: You're a bigot.

Anti-gay: You're immoral/damned.

I'm tired of seeing the same debate a thousand times. What can be done to change the dialogue?

Views: 464

Comment by Sagacious Hawk on March 3, 2013 at 3:18am

OOOOOooooo... While you are absolutely correct to point out that being at a higher risk of Aids is not an argument for discrimination, I've got to point out this information because it's important for the community to know. Unfortunately, HIV/AIDS is not spread mostly by straight people. It's spread mostly by men who have sex with other men (MSM). Only about 8% of new HIV infections in 2010 are from drug transmiss.... If you are a gay man in the US you are more at risk then any other person to get HIV/AIDS, and if you are a black gay man, you are more at risk then all demographics.

From the CDC:

"As a group, gay, bisexual, and other MSM have an increased chance of being exposed to HIV because of the large number of MSM living with HIV. Results of HIV testing conducted in 21 cities indicated that 19% of MSM tested in 2008 were HIV-positive and that HIV prevalence increased with increasing age and decreased with increasing education and income. Men aged 40 years and older were more likely than men aged 18–39 to have HIV.

Further, many gay and bisexual men with HIV do not know they have HIV, especially MSM of color and young MSM. Of MSM who tested positive for HIV in 2008, 44% did not know they were infected. Among those infected, young MSM aged 18–29 (63%) and racial/ethnic minority MSM (54%) were more likely to be unaware they had HIV. Persons who don’t know they have HIV don’t get medical care and can unknowingly infect others.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that all MSM get tested for HIV at least once a year. Sexually active MSM might benefit from HIV testing every 3 to 6 months.

Sexual risk behaviors account for most HIV infections in MSM. Unprotected receptive anal sex is the sexual behavior that carries the highest risk for HIV acquisition. For sexually active MSM, the most effective ways to prevent HIV and many other sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are to avoid anal sex, or for MSM who do have anal sex, to always use condoms. MSM are at increased risk for syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia, and CDC recommends that all sexually active MSM be tested annually for these STIs.

Alcohol and illegal drug use increases risk for HIV and other STIs. Using substances such as alcohol and methamphetamines can impair judgment and increase risky sexual behavior.

Homophobia, stigma, and discrimination put MSM at risk for multiple physical and mental health problems and affect whether MSM seek and are able to obtain high-quality health services. Negative attitudes about homosexuality can lead to rejection by friends and family, discriminatory acts, and bullying and violence. These dynamics make it difficult for some MSM to be open about same-sex behaviors with others, which can increase stress, limit social support, and negatively affect health."

Also:

"Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) of all races and ethnicities remain the population most profoundly affected by HIV.

  • In 2010, the estimated number of new HIV infections among MSM was 29,800, a significant 12% increase from the 26,700 new infections among MSM in 2008.2
  • Although MSM represent about 4% of the male population in the United States,4 in 2010, MSM accounted for 78% of new HIV infections among males and 63% of all new infections.2 MSM accounted for 52% of all people living with HIV infection in 2009, the most recent year these data are available.1
  • In 2010, white MSM continued to account for the largest number of new HIV infections (11,200), by transmission category, followed closely by black MSM (10,600).2
  • The estimated number of new HIV infections was greatest among MSM in the youngest age group. In 2010, the greatest number of new HIV infections (4,800) among MSM occurred in young black/African American MSM aged 13–24. Young black MSM accounted for 45% of new HIV infections among black MSM and 55% of new HIV infections among young MSM overall.2
  • Since the epidemic began, almost 300,000 MSM with an AIDS diagnosis have died, including an estimated 6,863 in 2009.3



HIV/AIDS is still a serious health concern among the LGBT male community, and it's not something that is discussed often enough. You can find more information regarding HIV/AIDS in the US here.

Comment by kris feenstra on March 3, 2013 at 3:43am
I've rarely seen HIV feature that prominently in the debate, myself; however, if one wants to pursue that course of argument, it is worth noting that lesbian intercourse has the lowest transmission rate (if any at all). God must love lesbians the most.
Comment by Unseen on March 3, 2013 at 3:36pm

And lesbians are on the whole less promiscuous than heterosexuals or male gays. BTW, I had a gay male roommate for a year, and while he WAS looking for Mister Right, he had at least one and sometimes two different male hookups every week or so. He believed in safe sex, but he certainly wasn't Mr. Monogamy, either. And while this is just anecdotal, he did make clear that there is a very active underbelly of promiscuity in the gay community.

Comment by Jimmy Russell on March 3, 2013 at 4:04pm

lmao...on the whole...bwa hahaha

Comment by Amy L. Cook on March 3, 2013 at 5:56pm

Make pro-gay propaganda and shove it in everyone's face until they believe it!

Comment by John Kelly on March 3, 2013 at 6:12pm

I just start by showing the people that gay people can't help but be gay.  I show how aversion therapy is nasty and would have worked if they had a choice about it.  

They often bring up that gays and lesbians can't make kids with their unions. I bring up the fact that we allow infertile men and women to take fertile mates and essentially remove those people from being able to contribute their genes because we ultimately feel that there is more to marriage than just being able to reproduce. But what that suggests is that we feel it is unfair for people to not have romantic partners to share their lives with simply because they can't have kids or likewise can't be attracted to the opposite sex.

I find the best route to use is to refer to homosexuality as being an incurable disorder.  Even if they think some people can be cured, I point out even if that was the case, the majority respond poorly to the most aggressive and painful conditioning, suggesting it is largely beyond their capability.

I get that for GLBT individuals, sexual orientation is an identity, and it is not preferable to call an identity that people find personal worth inside of a disorder, but I think that really is just due to us having such a negative and judgmental outlook on disorders.  People can thrive with and identify with disorders and they can bring about good.

Comment by Desu Desudes on March 3, 2013 at 6:45pm

Lots of sparkly colours often signalize that something is of homosexual origin. Twilight protagonist Edward Cullen is a prime example of this. By that, we may conclude that homosexuals more often tend to have a fascination with colours and arts. By that, we may conclude that homosexuals are more creative. By that, we may conclude that they contribute more to society. By that, we may conclude that they are superior to us. By that, we may conclude that they are also morally superior to us. By that, we may conclude that we are wrong and homo is right. Any heterosexual stance on any topic is now morally inferior.  This means all must now hail homo to be right. They wrong. Homo right. End.

Comment by SteveInCO on March 3, 2013 at 8:18pm

Sagacious Hawk makes an interesting point.  The "pro gay" side of the debate has indeed been trying to sweep that information under the floor, to the point of sometimes outright lying about it.  It's OK to point out that AIDS is not just for gays, but it's not OK to claim that it hits heterosexuals as often (rate-wise) as it hits male homosexuals.  That's easily disprovable and discredits the pro-gay side as a bunch of liars; with that it's easier to make charges of just general "immorality" stick.  After all if you are willing to lie to cover up just how bad for your health homosexuality could be (they will say) what else are you lying about?

Comment by SteveInCO on March 3, 2013 at 8:19pm

[I should be at pains to point out that of course I do not think any of this justifies anti-gay bigotry or discrimination.]

Comment by kris feenstra on March 3, 2013 at 8:38pm

The "pro gay" side of the debate has indeed been trying to sweep that information under the floor, to the point of sometimes outright lyingabout it. 

I've found the statistics abused on both pro- and anti- sides of the debate. I agree that it is discrediting for anyone misrepresenting these facts to be called out. These statistics exist for health concerns, not moralizing, so it is generally disheartening that anyone tries to use them that way to begin with, even if they do use reasonably accurate numbers.

It's like arguing that white folk are the devil and God shows us our sin of lightness through higher incidences of skin cancer when we choose to be white under the sunlight. Why oh why can't I stop choosing to be white under the sun? I must repent! Or put on some sunscreen. 

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