Ex-Athiest writing a book on how to save you godless heathens

hi there friends. i am an ex athiest and im a putting togethter a book/blog for christians about understanding and then saving athiests. I PROMISE, I AM NOT TRYING TO SAVE YOU! but i would greatly appreciate your input.

like i said i used to be an athiest. actually i was more of an anti-christian. i was very thorough wile compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. i had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but i could use more.

lets face it. alot of christians are annoying, i agree, but the big idea here is that most christians have absolutely no concept of life without god. so they dont understand athiesim at all. one of the purposes of my book is to illustrate that athiests are not all terrible satanists. that alot of them are actually really good hearted people.

if you are willing to help me out i would appreciate it. if not, feel free to tell me to go to hell lol... please respond to the following 2 statements/questions

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 

 

Views: 1412

Tags: christian, ex-athiest., good, jesus

Comment by Unseen on January 18, 2013 at 1:55pm

im sorry if you felt insulted and felt the need to defend yourself in an aggressive manner, was not my intention.

Look up "passive aggressive." It's one way to describe that comment. An insult wrapped in an insincere apology qualifies.

Nobody here is insulted, buster. Annoyed is the accurate term. Annoyed about your presumptions and ignorance.

Comment by Sophie on January 18, 2013 at 1:55pm

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

Jesus has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth. None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either. Jesus has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone. Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that jesus existed.

If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. 

Here is a small list of just the African gods

Abassi , Abuk , Adu Ogyinae , Ag, Agwe , Aida Wedo , Ajalamo, Aje, Ajok, Akonadi, Akongo, Akuj, Amma, Anansi, Asase Yaa, Ashiakle, Atai , Ayaba, Aziri, Baatsi, Bayanni, Bele Alua, Bomo rambi, Bosumabla, Buk, Buku, Bumba, Bunzi, Buruku, Cagn, Candit, Cghene, Coti, Damballah-Wedo, Dan, Deng, Domfe, Dongo, Edinkira, Ef, Egungun-oya, Eka Abassi, Elephant Girl Mbombe, Emayian, Enekpe, En-Kai, Eseasar, Eshu, Esu, Fa, Faran, Faro, Fatouma, Fidi Mukullu, Fon, Gleti, Gonzuole, G, Gua, Gulu, Gunab, Hammadi, Hbiesso, Iku, Ilankaka, Imana, Iruwa, Isaywa, Juok, Kazooba, Khakaba, Khonvum, Kibuka, Kintu, Leb, Leza, Libanza, Lituolone, Loko, Marwe, Massim Biambe, Mawu-Lisa (Leza), Mboze, Mebeli, Minepa, Moombi, Mukameiguru, Mukasa, Muluku, Mulungu, Mwambu, Nai, Nambi, Nana Buluku, Nanan-Bouclou, Nenaunir, Ng Ai, Nyaliep, Nyamb, Nyankopon, Nyasaye, Nzame, Oboto, Obumo, Odudua-Orishala, Ogun, Olokun, Olorun, Orisha Nla, Orunmila, Osanyin, Oshe, Osun, Oya, Phebele, Pokot-Suk, Ralubumbha, Rugaba, Ruhanga, Ryangombe, Sagbata, Shagpona, Shango, Sopona, Tano, Thixo, Tilo, Tokoloshi, Tsui, Tsui'goab, Umvelinqangi, Unkulunkulu, Utixo, Wak, Wamara, Wantu Su, Wele, Were, Woto, Xevioso, Yangombi, Yemonja, Ymoa, Ymoja, Yoruba, Zambi, Zanahary , Zinkibaru,

But wait what about all the Caribbean gods???

Agaman Nibo , Agwe, Agweta, Ah Uaynih, Aida Wedo , Atabei , Ayida , Ayizan, Azacca, Baron Samedi, Ulrich, Ellegua, Ogun, Ochosi, Chango, Itaba, Amelia, Christalline, Clairm, Clairmezin, Coatrischie, Damballah , Emanjah, Erzuli, Erzulie, Ezili, Ghede, Guabancex, Guabonito, Guamaonocon, Imanje, Karous, Laloue-diji, Legba, Loa, Loco, Maitresse Amelia , Mapiangueh, Marie-aime, Marinette, Mombu, Marassa, Nana Buruku, Oba, Obtala, Ochu, Ochumare, Oddudua, Ogoun, Olokum, Olosa, Oshun, Oya, Philomena, Sirne, The Diablesse, Itaba, Tsilah, Ursule, Vierge, Yemaya , Zaka,

or the Chinese gods?

Ba, Caishen, Chang Fei, Chang Hsien, Chang Pan, Ch'ang Tsai, Chao san-Niang, Chao T'eng-k'ang, Chen Kao, Ch'eng Huang, Cheng San-Kung, Cheng Yuan-ho, Chi Po, Chien-Ti, Chih Jih, Chih Nii, Chih Nu, Ch'ih Sung-tzu, Ching Ling Tzu, Ch'ing Lung, Chin-hua Niang-niang, Chio Yuan-Tzu, Chou Wang, Chu Niao, Chu Ying, Chuang-Mu, Chu-jung, Chun T'i, Ch'ung Ling-yu, Chung Liu, Chung-kuei, Chung-li Ch'an, Di Jun, Fan K'uei, Fei Lien, Feng Pho-Pho, Fengbo, Fu Hsing, Fu-Hsi, Fu-Pao, Gaomei, Guan Di, Hao Ch'iu, Heng-o, Ho Po (Ping-I), Hou Chi, Hou T'u, Hsi Ling-su, Hsi Shih, Hsi Wang Mu, Hsiao Wu, Hsieh T'ien-chun, Hsien Nung, Hsi-shen, Hsu Ch'ang, Hsuan Wen-hua, Huang Ti, Huang T'ing, Huo Pu, Hu-Shen, Jen An, Jizo Bosatsu, Keng Yen-cheng, King Wan, Ko Hsien-Weng, Kuan Ti, Kuan Ti, Kuei-ku Tzu, Kuo Tzu-i, Lai Cho, Lao Lang, Lei Kung, Lei Tsu, Li Lao-chun, Li Tien, Liu Meng, Liu Pei, Lo Shen, Lo Yu, Lo-Tsu Ta-Hsien, Lu Hsing, Lung Yen, Lu-pan, Ma-Ku, Mang Chin-i, Mang Shen, Mao Meng, Men Shen, Miao Hu, Mi-lo Fo, Ming Shang, Nan-chi Hsien-weng, Niu Wang, Nu Wa, Nu-kua, Pa, Pa Cha, Pai Chung, Pai Liu-Fang, Pai Yu, P'an Niang, P'an-Chin-Lien, Pao Yuan-ch'uan, Phan Ku, P'i Chia-Ma, Pien Ho, San Kuan, Sao-ch'ing Niang, Sarudahiko, Shang Chien, Shang Ti, She chi, Shen Hsui-Chih, Shen Nung, Sheng Mu, Shih Liang, Shiu Fang, Shou-lao, Shun I Fu-jen, Sien-Tsang, Ssu-ma Hsiang-ju, Sun Pin, Sun Ssu-miao, Sung-Chiang, Tan Chu, T'ang Ming Huang, Tao Kung, T'ien Fei, Tien Hou, Tien Mu, Ti-tsang, Tsai Shen, Ts'an Nu, Ts'ang Chien, Tsao Chun, Tsao-Wang, T'shai-Shen, Tung Chun, T'ung Chung-chung, T'ung Lai-yu, Tung Lu, T'ung Ming, Tzu-ku Shen, Wa, Wang Ta-hsien, Wang-Mu-Niang-Niang, Weiwobo, Wen-ch'ang, Wu-tai Yuan-shuai, Xi Hou, Xi Wangmu, Xiu Wenyin, Yanwang, Yaoji, Yen-lo, Yen-Lo-Wang, Yi, Yu, Yu Ch'iang, Yu Huang, Yun-T'ung, Yu-Tzu, Zaoshen, Zhang Xi, , Zhin, Zhongguei, , Zigu Shen, , Zisun, Ch'ang-O

Keep in mind that millions upon millions of people believed in these gods. So now all of a sudden jesus is suppose to be the one true god? Laughable I say to you.

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians????

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Comment by kris feenstra on January 18, 2013 at 2:11pm

"yup, that about sums up what its like to be an alcoholic."

I suppose I didn't articulate it well enough, but my point is that you aren't going to be able to do that in all likelihood. I do not think you will be able to paint a complete picture with or without the input of this forum or similar sources, but you can give a very thorough and thoughtful depiction of one piece of the puzzle: your own.

And to be clear, I don't even think I could pull it off that easily, even having been one my entire life. it would be difficult with any group, but even more so with atheists. Despite common trends amongst atheists and the fact that we may spout off similar rhetoric and clichés, without a unifying doctrine for the group, the differences between us as individuals are almost the same as the differences between our life experiences and psychologies.

Comment by kris feenstra on January 18, 2013 at 2:21pm

"Nobody here is insulted, buster. Annoyed is the accurate term. Annoyed about your presumptions and ignorance."

Theists who post here tend to be treated with a lot of prejudice right out of the gate, which is why many of them -- sincere or disingenuous -- seem to break quickly. Do I have a problem with that? No, I think it is pretty natural under these circumstances, and a number of theists have outright earned it in not being forthright even when afforded the opportunity. Also, if you walk into the lion's den, you shouldn't be alarmed at finding lions. All I'm saying is, the tension is pretty much never one-sided. It is what it is.

Comment by Adam on January 18, 2013 at 2:30pm

No such thing as an Ex Atheist. You were just a confused , you never were an Atheist

Comment by Karl Mugele on January 18, 2013 at 6:10pm

Cameron

"capitalizing and misspelling things, then by all means. your words are not hurtful"

Sure - why would you feel insulted by this.  The only attack by this is the ad hominem argument but that's incongruous.

"i do not have to prove i was an atheist"

No, you don't.  Everyone is born an atheist.  You certainly were.  You may not have been a considered atheist though.  It concerned me that you felt so "under attack" as an atheist that you had to fight back with your list or arguments.  There is a simple argument for atheism.  The is no evidence for any of the thousands of gods, and you get no palpable benefit from kidding yourself into believing in one.  I'm more interested in why you started to fantasize in an unevidenced supernatural alien being than whether you were ever atheist. 

"I did not come here to argue my religion"

No?  Attempts at conversion by religious fantasists are an attack on truth and a risk to freedom and mental stability.  Your term "godless heathen" is an insult amongst christians..in the same way as my term "religious fantasist" might be of the religious amongst atheists.  Are you happy to be called such?

"I can tell that you dont really want to know where im coming from"

You are a mind reader too....or maybe with some of us, you are right, and we don't really care because we've heard it all before.

"you just want some more ammunition to insult me with"

I don't see any insults but if you don't want to risk it, don't put your head above the parapet; don't proselytise.

"you felt insulted and felt the need to defend yourself in an aggressive manner"

This is a blog, not a boxing ring.  There has been no aggression.  Has anyone asked for a fight?  You are obsessing.

"a recovering alcoholic"

It was not your intention to confront atheists, yet you compare atheism to alcoholism!

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on January 18, 2013 at 6:39pm

“i was very thorough while compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. I had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but I could use more”

Would you mind sharing some of those great arguments? Just your top 3 if you could. Thanks.

Comment by Cara Coleen on January 18, 2013 at 6:40pm

C'mon guys. I realize you've all dealt with theists before, but a little intellectual honesty would do us good here.

We can't use the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. In order to be atheist, *all* you have to do is NOT believe there's a god... even if the reasons you don't believe there's a god are not scientific or based in research. Also, maybe he wasn't familiar with all the arguments we make on Think Atheist, or elsewhere on the internet. He could've been a passive atheist. You don't have to be an atheist activist to be atheist. You don't have to have thought about why you don't believe. You don't have to have thought about religion, or theology, or anything... It is possible for him to have been atheist and then converted to Christianity. I've seen it happen before, even though I was totally perplexed by it. The kid was in search of some "emotional healing" that atheism, in and of itself, cannot provide. There are things that *could* have provided him comfort/affirmation, but the quick-fix was Christianity. Say a prayer, have wrongs forgiven... blam! All better (for a while).

And the criticism of his spelling/punctuation is a red herring. Someone already pointed it out; you don't have to be a Writing Major to write books anymore. You can get published on Amazon. We've had lots of atheists on Think Atheist who want to write about their experience even though they're not prolific writers, too. So, engage Cameron if you want to... but I feel going after his spelling is a cheap shot.

But, Cameron... your approach *did* put people on the defensive. You insisted you weren't here to "save" us, but you admitted you *were* here to do research on a book meant to do just that, or help Christians do that. Whether you mean it to be or not, it *is* insulting and presumptuous. If you were atheist at one point, then you should know what coming in here like that would feel like to us. Your seeming forgetfulness about your own feelings as an atheist make people doubt your sincerity.

Also, you asked what our arguments against Jesus' existence were. We gave you those arguments, but instead of saying "Oh I see, I'll include that in my book, " you claimed that many of us knew "absolutely nothing" about the Bible, etc. If you're researching for a book about the atheist experience/opinion, dismissing our experience or opinions implies you're being disingenuous; it implies you're here for something *other* than listening and discovering our thoughts. Just a hint: that's not how you do objective research.

You accused us of being ignorant, yet refuse to engage in a debate. You don't see how that comes across? And I know *I* never insulted you.

Comment by Diane on January 18, 2013 at 7:00pm

We are all at varying levels of education, age, experience, finesse, recovery, aggression, etc.  Many of us here have read the Bible, many have studied it, and some are bona fide Biblical scholars.  Some of us have been seriously harmed by Christians and/or Christian institutions, practices, and/or tenets. We have individual histories that most would likely happily share with a reasonably sincere-seeming inquirer.  

I want Christians to understand us, but not to save us.  I want them to understand us and then let us be.  I cannot stress this enough.  You would be doing everybody a favor if you wrote a book that allows Christians insight into how to respect us, coexist with us, and, most achingly important, stop trying to save us.

Comment by Kairan Nierde on January 18, 2013 at 8:28pm

Ok, Cameron W, I am in not convinced that you are being entirely honest but I can see how this exchange can benefit us both, despite what appears to me to be an unecessary lack of transparency.  We talk with curious life-long Christians as well as those who say they are recent converts. Whoever you are, I'll give you my view on these questions.

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

I think this is odd to ask. When I was Catholic, we were told to believe that Jesus and God (and the Holy Ghost) are different manifestations of the same being.  I never really accepted that.  I always saw Jesus as a moral teacher and sacrificial lamb.  I almost always prayed to God, maybe to Jesus around 8% of the time.  Never to the Holy Spirit or Mary. If I have any beef with Jesus, it's probably that his teachings aren't that effective in getting his followers to behave well.  I would expect a higher rate of people behaving well after encountering Christianity, especially if one is to believe that Christianity is inspired by the actions and teaching of the son of a God/a demi-god.  I don't think Jesus set the bar too high for humans to follow his teachings accurately. 

 

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 

I dislike the same thing I disliked about Christians when I was a Christianity: immoral behavior by those who claim to be morally superior.  Hypocracy pisses me off.  A lot of Christians give lipservice to the Gospel and value material wealth, power, prestige, vanity, etc. above the teachings of Jesus.  The Christians who do follow Jesus' teachings more carefully tend to be fundmentalists, in my experience, who also subscribe to Old Testament values.  OT values are not always in line with the Gospel teachings and less often in line with enlightened, "modern" morality.  So, in these two groups you have people who live according to some of the worst concepts humanity has produced, from the ancient world and in contemporary times.  It's proably possible to say the same things about members of many different faith traditions, but you were just asking about Christians.

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