Ex-Athiest writing a book on how to save you godless heathens

hi there friends. i am an ex athiest and im a putting togethter a book/blog for christians about understanding and then saving athiests. I PROMISE, I AM NOT TRYING TO SAVE YOU! but i would greatly appreciate your input.

like i said i used to be an athiest. actually i was more of an anti-christian. i was very thorough wile compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. i had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but i could use more.

lets face it. alot of christians are annoying, i agree, but the big idea here is that most christians have absolutely no concept of life without god. so they dont understand athiesim at all. one of the purposes of my book is to illustrate that athiests are not all terrible satanists. that alot of them are actually really good hearted people.

if you are willing to help me out i would appreciate it. if not, feel free to tell me to go to hell lol... please respond to the following 2 statements/questions

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 

 

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Comment by Emperor Milos on January 18, 2013 at 9:44am

@ Cameron W

many of you are extremely defensive tho.

How would you act if we came to a place you enjoy and posted a thread called "Ex Christian writing a book to de-convert brainwashed Christians."

I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANY OF YOU.

The title of your post would disagree with that statement.

i sincerely was, in fact an ATHEIST

Looking at your responses in some of the other threads, I seriously doubt that.

and like many of you, i spent my whole life surrounding myself with like minded people who supported my position.

How did you come to this conclusion about any of us? Or is this another "not judging you tho lol" moment?

Let me fill you in on my background at least. I do have atheist friends. But I have many more christian friends. I was roommates with a christian for 3 years, and I have been married to a christian for 2 years. Her family is basically like the Flanders from the Simpsons. In order to marry her, I was forced to participate in bible study, and I have accompanied my wife to church many, many times. I have been obsessed with history and mythology for as long as I can remember, so do not assume that I am not well versed in your religion. I have been atheist my entire life, and I take every opportunity to go to a church or whatever event when invited by my religious friends.

Do not assume that we are close minded, simply because you were.

there are a few very close people in my life that, yes, i have an interest in saving.

Has it crossed your mind that maybe they don't need to be, or dare I say, want to be "saved?" Or do you know their lives and needs better than they do, and have a higher understanding of what is best for someone else? Because if you think you do, that is another judgement. Another pretty big no, no, according to the Jewish Lich.

i am, in fact, writting a book. whether or not i spell correctly or use capital letters has nothing to do with that.

It should. Also, if you are WRITING a book, you could at least spell WRITING correctly.

i didnt go to school to be a writer but i do happen to be an expert on the position im writting about. which is. devout atheist converted to christian.

If you are an expert on your position, why are you here? And if you use the term "devout atheist" you clearly don't have the tiniest clue about what you are talking about.

its not going to be a book for athiests (yes i will continue to mispell words) it is a book for christians. and many of them are curious about my transformation.

Then why are you here? If they are interested in your transformation, why are you here talking to... not you? Or do you plan to spice up your "transformation" with stories from other people. That would be pretty dishonest.

i need to and want to interview and get many different perspectives. right now i can only write of my experiences as an atheist.

If the book is about your transformation, again, why do you need other perspectives? I'm sure a quick Google search would have provided you with the information you need, and a lot less hassle from the heathens your book will attempt to save.

i will say 2 things tho. number1 there is a glaring contrast to how i have been recieved since my conversion to christianity. most of you have commented about self righteous arrogant christians and their judging ways. with out a doubt, i have felt more judgement from atheists in my 2 years of being a christian than i ever have from christians out of my 30 years of atheism.

Well, you said yourself that you were surrounded by like minded people. So, there is not a lot of room for judgement from people you went out of your way to avoid. I believe that you received a lot of judgement from atheists in your 2 short years of theism, but you should expect it. You come into our forums wanting information from us about our thoughts so you can write a book on how to SAVE us. What the fuck did you expect? Which part of WE DO NOT NEED OR WANT SAVING do you theists fail to understand? Do we need to put a verse number next to the sentence before it registers? Okay, I can do that.

And the lord said, atheists do not need nor want to be saved by you lot. Now quit being annoying and enjoy your life. 2 Serb 3:16

the only difference with me is now i am alot less combative. i no longer feel the need to prove or justify or defend my beliefs.

Good for you! Believing in things without proof or reason. Faith is awesome!

number 2. judging by some of your responses i can tell that many of you know absolutely nothing about christianity or the bible or the history of it.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Again with the judgements.
You do realize that most of us here have read the bible many, many times. Most of the people here have been christian for over 20 years, some studying to be part of the clergy. Some raised by members of their churches. And some of us are history buffs, who have spent most of our time with our noses buried in random history books, including books about the "historical accuracy" of your holy book. You have studied the bible for 2 years, and you act as if you wrote the damn thing. I'm sure you are excited about your book idea, and eager to educate us heathens, but let me warn you now, you are in way over your head. If after 30 years of being atheist, you fall for theism, you are not prepared for this place.

i was the same way though. i would study scripture that seemed to contradict other scripture.

So, you read the bible then. Okay. The entire book contradicts itself. What is your point.

i would use the christian words and terminology and quote their book in order bait them into theological pitfalls.

There is a lot of theological pitfalls, again the entire book is a jumbled, ranting mess.

i would catch them in a part of the bible they werent too familar with and then i would say "see you are preaching the bible and you dont know it" case closed and i was good at it.

If you were good at it, the case wouldn't be closed if a theist was caught not knowing his book. Just like the case is not closed with you right now. You fail to explain yourself and support the things you are saying, so we will continue to question you until either you answer us honestly, and provide evidence, or you do what most other theists do when they visit, call us names and rage quit.

i realized then that i was only studying words and wasnt too concearned what it all meant in context.

And what did it all mean? What context did you have to put it into for it to matter, or make sense? Who told you how to study it, what passages to read? I bet it was a priest or another theist.

i would ignore scripture that i actually agreed with. when it all came down to it.

That is a fault in your logic then. There are scriptures that I agree with, but that doesn't mean that they are worth considering, or that they outweigh the rest of the atrocities and bigotry in the book.
I'm sure that if I dug deep enough into Hitler's life, I would be bound to agree with something he said or did at one point in his life. Oh, wait! There is! He loved animals! I love animals! Holy shit! Hitler is awesome! I totally forgive him for all the war and genocide stuff.

as i started learning more and witnessing a few miricles of my own. i started to realize that the only reason i hated christianity was because i didnt fully understand it.

Please provide evidence for miracles. Scientific evidence. If you were atheist for 30 years as you claim, you would be well aware that personal experiences are not evidence. Thus another reason why we think you are lying to us.

Again, hating christianity does not make you atheist. Atheism, is a lack of belief in gods. If you were atheist for 30 years, or just bothered to use Google, or a dictionary, you would know that.

and the only reason i hated christians was because i had felt judgement from people who claimed to be christian.

That's the only reason? You had no beef with them killing doctors, bombing abortion clinics, condemning use of condoms, praising AIDS. hating homosexuals, other religions, trying to undermine science and the progress of humanity? All that stuff was perfectly cool? And before you start saying how that is not biblical teachings, I posted some examples that cover this stuff in one of my other replies to you. If you are as versed in the scripture as you claim you are, you will know this.

p.s. notice RobertPiano gave me a gigantic opening to burst in with my testemony and preach my beliefs. my motives are legitamately trying to get more atheists perspectives. thats it.

Lies. Your motives are to "save" atheists. You are here spewing condescending nonsense in only one sentence. You assume that atheists need to be saved, that we need your intervention in our lives, to educate us. Your book idea is proof of this. You think, that with your 2 years of bible study, you are better versed in it than people who have spent decades in the religion, or studying it, and you take the arrogant stance of the knight in shining armor, saving the people you care about, without even bothering to understand why they hold the opinion they have, or without asking them if they need, or even want your so called help and salvation.

you wont catch me preaching to you. (unless you personally write me an email and ask me to) or disrespecting you or what you believe in.

You have disrespected us. You judge and make false assumptions about us, you claim you are better educated than us, yet you know nothing of us, and you make the ignorant, arrogant assumption that your way of life is best for everyone, and that you have the right to interfere in people's lives, and decide that the only way they will be "saved" and happy is if they believe what you tell them to.

the only thing i do is call people out when they give an inaccurate representation of christianity. 

Then provide us with evidence of our transgressions. If we are giving inaccurate representations of christianity, please provide us with actual, factual, tangible evidence of where we went wrong.

i would expect an athiest to do the same if i made a broad untrue statement like "atheists believe there is a god, they just dont like him"

And that is why we are having this discussion. You are making broad, untrue statements. You think that being atheist = hating christianity. You assume that atheists need to be saved. You assume that you are better versed in scripture and history than we are. And worst of all, you assume that your religion is true.

Comment by CAMERON W on January 18, 2013 at 1:29pm

i want to thank you all for participating so far. i can feel the love lol. just want to clear a couple of things up. even though i posted a response somewhere on page 2 or 3, i think most of you skimmed it or didnt read it at all.

1.i do realize that i will have to edit, capitalize and spell check before i finish the book. this is a discussion and i am writing conversationally. not trying to write a thesis here.  although if it makes you feel better to make fun and insult me for not capitalizing and misspelling things, then by all means. your words are not hurtful.

2. i do not have to prove i was an atheist, and again, i know that atheism is not an affirmative belief, its a lack of belief. got it. already said that. if someone says that, for the first 30 years of their life, they did not believe that god existed, i dont know why you would accuse that person of lying. perhaps you are used to people trying to decieve you. i dont know.

3 despit what many of you think, i did not come here to argue my religion. even though some of you have engaged and asked me for my opinions, i can tell that you dont really want to know where im coming from, you just want some more ammunition to insult me with.  im sorry if you felt insulted and felt the need to defend yourself in an aggressive manner, was not my intention.    

last point. to those who ask why i came here and why i dont just rely on my own experinces. if i were a recovering alcoholic, writting a book for non alcoholics. and a large portion of my book was to try to get non-alcoholics to understand the thought process and experiences of alcoholics. would it not be more beneficial to interview and get insight from multiple alcoholics, or just rely on my own experiences of alcoholism and say "yup, that about sums up what its like to be an alcoholic." ?

 with that being said, i would like to thank all of you for your imput. you all have been very helpful so far. please continue, this is all great insight. i would especially like to thank Spacious Hawk, Diane, and Kris F.  i think your responses were the only ones that did not start with insults.

 

Comment by Brenda Lee on January 18, 2013 at 1:38pm
Are you capable of posting a comment without being rude and insulting? It sounds to me that you're looking to us for an arsenal of excuses to explain away to your fellowship why you fell off the Christian wagon over the holidays.
Comment by Unseen on January 18, 2013 at 1:55pm

im sorry if you felt insulted and felt the need to defend yourself in an aggressive manner, was not my intention.

Look up "passive aggressive." It's one way to describe that comment. An insult wrapped in an insincere apology qualifies.

Nobody here is insulted, buster. Annoyed is the accurate term. Annoyed about your presumptions and ignorance.

Comment by Sophie on January 18, 2013 at 1:55pm

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

Jesus has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth. None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either. Jesus has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone. Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that jesus existed.

If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. 

Here is a small list of just the African gods

Abassi , Abuk , Adu Ogyinae , Ag, Agwe , Aida Wedo , Ajalamo, Aje, Ajok, Akonadi, Akongo, Akuj, Amma, Anansi, Asase Yaa, Ashiakle, Atai , Ayaba, Aziri, Baatsi, Bayanni, Bele Alua, Bomo rambi, Bosumabla, Buk, Buku, Bumba, Bunzi, Buruku, Cagn, Candit, Cghene, Coti, Damballah-Wedo, Dan, Deng, Domfe, Dongo, Edinkira, Ef, Egungun-oya, Eka Abassi, Elephant Girl Mbombe, Emayian, Enekpe, En-Kai, Eseasar, Eshu, Esu, Fa, Faran, Faro, Fatouma, Fidi Mukullu, Fon, Gleti, Gonzuole, G, Gua, Gulu, Gunab, Hammadi, Hbiesso, Iku, Ilankaka, Imana, Iruwa, Isaywa, Juok, Kazooba, Khakaba, Khonvum, Kibuka, Kintu, Leb, Leza, Libanza, Lituolone, Loko, Marwe, Massim Biambe, Mawu-Lisa (Leza), Mboze, Mebeli, Minepa, Moombi, Mukameiguru, Mukasa, Muluku, Mulungu, Mwambu, Nai, Nambi, Nana Buluku, Nanan-Bouclou, Nenaunir, Ng Ai, Nyaliep, Nyamb, Nyankopon, Nyasaye, Nzame, Oboto, Obumo, Odudua-Orishala, Ogun, Olokun, Olorun, Orisha Nla, Orunmila, Osanyin, Oshe, Osun, Oya, Phebele, Pokot-Suk, Ralubumbha, Rugaba, Ruhanga, Ryangombe, Sagbata, Shagpona, Shango, Sopona, Tano, Thixo, Tilo, Tokoloshi, Tsui, Tsui'goab, Umvelinqangi, Unkulunkulu, Utixo, Wak, Wamara, Wantu Su, Wele, Were, Woto, Xevioso, Yangombi, Yemonja, Ymoa, Ymoja, Yoruba, Zambi, Zanahary , Zinkibaru,

But wait what about all the Caribbean gods???

Agaman Nibo , Agwe, Agweta, Ah Uaynih, Aida Wedo , Atabei , Ayida , Ayizan, Azacca, Baron Samedi, Ulrich, Ellegua, Ogun, Ochosi, Chango, Itaba, Amelia, Christalline, Clairm, Clairmezin, Coatrischie, Damballah , Emanjah, Erzuli, Erzulie, Ezili, Ghede, Guabancex, Guabonito, Guamaonocon, Imanje, Karous, Laloue-diji, Legba, Loa, Loco, Maitresse Amelia , Mapiangueh, Marie-aime, Marinette, Mombu, Marassa, Nana Buruku, Oba, Obtala, Ochu, Ochumare, Oddudua, Ogoun, Olokum, Olosa, Oshun, Oya, Philomena, Sirne, The Diablesse, Itaba, Tsilah, Ursule, Vierge, Yemaya , Zaka,

or the Chinese gods?

Ba, Caishen, Chang Fei, Chang Hsien, Chang Pan, Ch'ang Tsai, Chao san-Niang, Chao T'eng-k'ang, Chen Kao, Ch'eng Huang, Cheng San-Kung, Cheng Yuan-ho, Chi Po, Chien-Ti, Chih Jih, Chih Nii, Chih Nu, Ch'ih Sung-tzu, Ching Ling Tzu, Ch'ing Lung, Chin-hua Niang-niang, Chio Yuan-Tzu, Chou Wang, Chu Niao, Chu Ying, Chuang-Mu, Chu-jung, Chun T'i, Ch'ung Ling-yu, Chung Liu, Chung-kuei, Chung-li Ch'an, Di Jun, Fan K'uei, Fei Lien, Feng Pho-Pho, Fengbo, Fu Hsing, Fu-Hsi, Fu-Pao, Gaomei, Guan Di, Hao Ch'iu, Heng-o, Ho Po (Ping-I), Hou Chi, Hou T'u, Hsi Ling-su, Hsi Shih, Hsi Wang Mu, Hsiao Wu, Hsieh T'ien-chun, Hsien Nung, Hsi-shen, Hsu Ch'ang, Hsuan Wen-hua, Huang Ti, Huang T'ing, Huo Pu, Hu-Shen, Jen An, Jizo Bosatsu, Keng Yen-cheng, King Wan, Ko Hsien-Weng, Kuan Ti, Kuan Ti, Kuei-ku Tzu, Kuo Tzu-i, Lai Cho, Lao Lang, Lei Kung, Lei Tsu, Li Lao-chun, Li Tien, Liu Meng, Liu Pei, Lo Shen, Lo Yu, Lo-Tsu Ta-Hsien, Lu Hsing, Lung Yen, Lu-pan, Ma-Ku, Mang Chin-i, Mang Shen, Mao Meng, Men Shen, Miao Hu, Mi-lo Fo, Ming Shang, Nan-chi Hsien-weng, Niu Wang, Nu Wa, Nu-kua, Pa, Pa Cha, Pai Chung, Pai Liu-Fang, Pai Yu, P'an Niang, P'an-Chin-Lien, Pao Yuan-ch'uan, Phan Ku, P'i Chia-Ma, Pien Ho, San Kuan, Sao-ch'ing Niang, Sarudahiko, Shang Chien, Shang Ti, She chi, Shen Hsui-Chih, Shen Nung, Sheng Mu, Shih Liang, Shiu Fang, Shou-lao, Shun I Fu-jen, Sien-Tsang, Ssu-ma Hsiang-ju, Sun Pin, Sun Ssu-miao, Sung-Chiang, Tan Chu, T'ang Ming Huang, Tao Kung, T'ien Fei, Tien Hou, Tien Mu, Ti-tsang, Tsai Shen, Ts'an Nu, Ts'ang Chien, Tsao Chun, Tsao-Wang, T'shai-Shen, Tung Chun, T'ung Chung-chung, T'ung Lai-yu, Tung Lu, T'ung Ming, Tzu-ku Shen, Wa, Wang Ta-hsien, Wang-Mu-Niang-Niang, Weiwobo, Wen-ch'ang, Wu-tai Yuan-shuai, Xi Hou, Xi Wangmu, Xiu Wenyin, Yanwang, Yaoji, Yen-lo, Yen-Lo-Wang, Yi, Yu, Yu Ch'iang, Yu Huang, Yun-T'ung, Yu-Tzu, Zaoshen, Zhang Xi, , Zhin, Zhongguei, , Zigu Shen, , Zisun, Ch'ang-O

Keep in mind that millions upon millions of people believed in these gods. So now all of a sudden jesus is suppose to be the one true god? Laughable I say to you.

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians????

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Comment by Adam on January 18, 2013 at 2:30pm

No such thing as an Ex Atheist. You were just a confused , you never were an Atheist

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on January 18, 2013 at 6:39pm

“i was very thorough while compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. I had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but I could use more”

Would you mind sharing some of those great arguments? Just your top 3 if you could. Thanks.

Comment by CJoe on January 18, 2013 at 6:40pm

C'mon guys. I realize you've all dealt with theists before, but a little intellectual honesty would do us good here.

We can't use the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. In order to be atheist, *all* you have to do is NOT believe there's a god... even if the reasons you don't believe there's a god are not scientific or based in research. Also, maybe he wasn't familiar with all the arguments we make on Think Atheist, or elsewhere on the internet. He could've been a passive atheist. You don't have to be an atheist activist to be atheist. You don't have to have thought about why you don't believe. You don't have to have thought about religion, or theology, or anything... It is possible for him to have been atheist and then converted to Christianity. I've seen it happen before, even though I was totally perplexed by it. The kid was in search of some "emotional healing" that atheism, in and of itself, cannot provide. There are things that *could* have provided him comfort/affirmation, but the quick-fix was Christianity. Say a prayer, have wrongs forgiven... blam! All better (for a while).

And the criticism of his spelling/punctuation is a red herring. Someone already pointed it out; you don't have to be a Writing Major to write books anymore. You can get published on Amazon. We've had lots of atheists on Think Atheist who want to write about their experience even though they're not prolific writers, too. So, engage Cameron if you want to... but I feel going after his spelling is a cheap shot.

But, Cameron... your approach *did* put people on the defensive. You insisted you weren't here to "save" us, but you admitted you *were* here to do research on a book meant to do just that, or help Christians do that. Whether you mean it to be or not, it *is* insulting and presumptuous. If you were atheist at one point, then you should know what coming in here like that would feel like to us. Your seeming forgetfulness about your own feelings as an atheist make people doubt your sincerity.

Also, you asked what our arguments against Jesus' existence were. We gave you those arguments, but instead of saying "Oh I see, I'll include that in my book, " you claimed that many of us knew "absolutely nothing" about the Bible, etc. If you're researching for a book about the atheist experience/opinion, dismissing our experience or opinions implies you're being disingenuous; it implies you're here for something *other* than listening and discovering our thoughts. Just a hint: that's not how you do objective research.

You accused us of being ignorant, yet refuse to engage in a debate. You don't see how that comes across? And I know *I* never insulted you.

Comment by Diane on January 18, 2013 at 7:00pm

We are all at varying levels of education, age, experience, finesse, recovery, aggression, etc.  Many of us here have read the Bible, many have studied it, and some are bona fide Biblical scholars.  Some of us have been seriously harmed by Christians and/or Christian institutions, practices, and/or tenets. We have individual histories that most would likely happily share with a reasonably sincere-seeming inquirer.  

I want Christians to understand us, but not to save us.  I want them to understand us and then let us be.  I cannot stress this enough.  You would be doing everybody a favor if you wrote a book that allows Christians insight into how to respect us, coexist with us, and, most achingly important, stop trying to save us.

Comment by Kairan Nierde on January 18, 2013 at 8:28pm

Ok, Cameron W, I am in not convinced that you are being entirely honest but I can see how this exchange can benefit us both, despite what appears to me to be an unecessary lack of transparency.  We talk with curious life-long Christians as well as those who say they are recent converts. Whoever you are, I'll give you my view on these questions.

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

I think this is odd to ask. When I was Catholic, we were told to believe that Jesus and God (and the Holy Ghost) are different manifestations of the same being.  I never really accepted that.  I always saw Jesus as a moral teacher and sacrificial lamb.  I almost always prayed to God, maybe to Jesus around 8% of the time.  Never to the Holy Spirit or Mary. If I have any beef with Jesus, it's probably that his teachings aren't that effective in getting his followers to behave well.  I would expect a higher rate of people behaving well after encountering Christianity, especially if one is to believe that Christianity is inspired by the actions and teaching of the son of a God/a demi-god.  I don't think Jesus set the bar too high for humans to follow his teachings accurately. 

 

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 

I dislike the same thing I disliked about Christians when I was a Christianity: immoral behavior by those who claim to be morally superior.  Hypocracy pisses me off.  A lot of Christians give lipservice to the Gospel and value material wealth, power, prestige, vanity, etc. above the teachings of Jesus.  The Christians who do follow Jesus' teachings more carefully tend to be fundmentalists, in my experience, who also subscribe to Old Testament values.  OT values are not always in line with the Gospel teachings and less often in line with enlightened, "modern" morality.  So, in these two groups you have people who live according to some of the worst concepts humanity has produced, from the ancient world and in contemporary times.  It's proably possible to say the same things about members of many different faith traditions, but you were just asking about Christians.

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