Ex-Athiest writing a book on how to save you godless heathens

hi there friends. i am an ex athiest and im a putting togethter a book/blog for christians about understanding and then saving athiests. I PROMISE, I AM NOT TRYING TO SAVE YOU! but i would greatly appreciate your input.

like i said i used to be an athiest. actually i was more of an anti-christian. i was very thorough wile compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. i had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but i could use more.

lets face it. alot of christians are annoying, i agree, but the big idea here is that most christians have absolutely no concept of life without god. so they dont understand athiesim at all. one of the purposes of my book is to illustrate that athiests are not all terrible satanists. that alot of them are actually really good hearted people.

if you are willing to help me out i would appreciate it. if not, feel free to tell me to go to hell lol... please respond to the following 2 statements/questions

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 

 

Views: 1400

Tags: christian, ex-athiest., good, jesus

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on January 18, 2013 at 5:31am

"i had a long list of great arguments against christianity"

Cameron, your line stirs a memory: "It's easier to change dogmas than to give up the need for a dogma."

Comment by Karl Mugele on January 18, 2013 at 5:49am

Good call Tom Sarbeck...

If Cameron really had been an atheist, why would he have needed a long list of great arguments against christianity?

This is yet another really weird idea perpurted by christians, that atheism is somehow another "religion" or cult.  I had a discussion with a christian from the US at a party in London one time, where her argument was that I could only be an agnostic.  The reasoning appeared to be that by oppsosing a religion I accept it's validity, perhaps in the same way that devil worshippers (if there really are any) are really just followers of one or other Abrahamic religion that are intrigued by evil.  The ones who came to devil worship from christianity could be described as christian fans of the devil.  The atheist / agnostic argument being that if I accepted the validity of christianity as a religion, then I was religious but had somehow become unsure.

Of course, all this is nonsense.  If you don't believe, you don't believe.  That's not an acceptance of the validity of other's beliefs, only, if you are pragmatic and fair, you should accept others right to believe, in the same way you might let your kid believe in goblins and giants while young, for the titilation and the way the idea of these mythical creatures and fantasy worlds fire your kid's imahgination.

You'd be a pretty unkind person to crush someone's fantsasies, no matter what their age is, so the "long list" was a little unfair of Cameron.

Comment by Casey Mc on January 18, 2013 at 7:53am
Everyone wrote my main arguments against Jesus so I'll just say that what I dislike most about Christians. It is exactly what you are attempting to do with your blog and book. Stop getting in everyone else's business, worry about your own "soul" and leave mine alone. Also I really hate the face of pity,hurt, anguish, and confusion when I tell a Christian I'm an atheist. Get over yourselves.
Comment by Hank Hell on January 18, 2013 at 8:10am

As for Jesus, all likelihood would suggest that he was just a man, and since the simplest answer is usaually the truest, I feel perfectly comfortable with that conclusion. I don't argue "against jesus" so much though, as I don't give a fuck about what other believe

Now the second question is really simple for me. I feel that christians, in their desperation to assuage their fears of death, are willing to condem wave after wave of innocent people. I think that if you're willing to imagine an innumerable horde of people suffering for eternity, just because you don't have the strenght to face human mortality, then you are a weak, fear driven, sheep person.  

Comment by Grady Jean on January 18, 2013 at 9:14am

My biggest problem with Christians is, without a doubt, the way they see it as their personal right to impose their morality, their world view, their religion, on every one else through violence, coercion, and legislation. It's abhorrent and disgusting to think of the lives that have been ruined by religious intolerance. It makes my ears bleed when I hear "Christians" blaming the troubles of our country on the "Godless Heathens". Every time someone demands we bring God back, I'm forced to think: "Wait, aren't there already functioning theocracies in the world? Have these people never heard of the middle east?" Of course they haven't. Because, like the narrow minded idiots they are, they can't see past their own ludicrous beliefs. They can't accept logic and reason, and despite their moronic claims of knowing the "One True God", they don't seem to know much at all. Their answers and arguments are flimsy, their defenses are paper thin.

Then there's YOU. You come in here with a mask on your face, this mealy mouthed apologist spew about how "You're not trying to convert anyone" and you "Just want our input". My fellow Thinkers here have already made the only point that needs made about YOU, good sir: If you truly had anywhere near as much experience with Atheism as you claimed, you wouldn't need  to ask for our input; You could just use your own. Even if you were trying for different view points on the subject, you could do a simple Google search for "Arguments against Jesus" or "What annoys you about Christians", and you'd have everything you needed. If you're a 30 - to 35 year old ex-Atheist who wants to write a book, then I'm a Nigerian Prince with a vault full of cash I'd like to share with you.

If you were a spy, you'd be sort've like this guy: http://macromeme.com/dog/disguised-chris-hansen.html

Comment by Ed on January 18, 2013 at 9:37am

Cameron,

You said:

"there are a few very close people in my life that, yes, i have an interest in saving. the rest of the world? to each his own i say."

I wonder why you would be content with saving just a few very close friends and leaving the rest of the world to fend for themselves. I believe the real christian message is to have an interest to save EVERYONE. You're going to need to adjust your scope of coverage to keep that big guy in the sky really happy with your efforts.

Rely upon your own life's experiences as material for your writings. It is a much safer approach.

The only annoyance I can relate to you as to dealing with followers of christianity is their unwillingness to consider alternative viewpoints and their disdain for critical thought. 

Comment by Unseen on January 18, 2013 at 9:39am

"there are a few very close people in my life that, yes, i have an interest in saving. the rest of the world? to each his own i say."

You come here saying WE know nothing about Christianity and then you make an un-Christian statement like that? Remember, when Jesus was recruiting disciples, he wouldn't even let them go and say good-bye to their families!

If you're going to be Christian, you might crack The Bible now and then.

Comment by Emperor Milos on January 18, 2013 at 9:44am

@ Cameron W

many of you are extremely defensive tho.

How would you act if we came to a place you enjoy and posted a thread called "Ex Christian writing a book to de-convert brainwashed Christians."

I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANY OF YOU.

The title of your post would disagree with that statement.

i sincerely was, in fact an ATHEIST

Looking at your responses in some of the other threads, I seriously doubt that.

and like many of you, i spent my whole life surrounding myself with like minded people who supported my position.

How did you come to this conclusion about any of us? Or is this another "not judging you tho lol" moment?

Let me fill you in on my background at least. I do have atheist friends. But I have many more christian friends. I was roommates with a christian for 3 years, and I have been married to a christian for 2 years. Her family is basically like the Flanders from the Simpsons. In order to marry her, I was forced to participate in bible study, and I have accompanied my wife to church many, many times. I have been obsessed with history and mythology for as long as I can remember, so do not assume that I am not well versed in your religion. I have been atheist my entire life, and I take every opportunity to go to a church or whatever event when invited by my religious friends.

Do not assume that we are close minded, simply because you were.

there are a few very close people in my life that, yes, i have an interest in saving.

Has it crossed your mind that maybe they don't need to be, or dare I say, want to be "saved?" Or do you know their lives and needs better than they do, and have a higher understanding of what is best for someone else? Because if you think you do, that is another judgement. Another pretty big no, no, according to the Jewish Lich.

i am, in fact, writting a book. whether or not i spell correctly or use capital letters has nothing to do with that.

It should. Also, if you are WRITING a book, you could at least spell WRITING correctly.

i didnt go to school to be a writer but i do happen to be an expert on the position im writting about. which is. devout atheist converted to christian.

If you are an expert on your position, why are you here? And if you use the term "devout atheist" you clearly don't have the tiniest clue about what you are talking about.

its not going to be a book for athiests (yes i will continue to mispell words) it is a book for christians. and many of them are curious about my transformation.

Then why are you here? If they are interested in your transformation, why are you here talking to... not you? Or do you plan to spice up your "transformation" with stories from other people. That would be pretty dishonest.

i need to and want to interview and get many different perspectives. right now i can only write of my experiences as an atheist.

If the book is about your transformation, again, why do you need other perspectives? I'm sure a quick Google search would have provided you with the information you need, and a lot less hassle from the heathens your book will attempt to save.

i will say 2 things tho. number1 there is a glaring contrast to how i have been recieved since my conversion to christianity. most of you have commented about self righteous arrogant christians and their judging ways. with out a doubt, i have felt more judgement from atheists in my 2 years of being a christian than i ever have from christians out of my 30 years of atheism.

Well, you said yourself that you were surrounded by like minded people. So, there is not a lot of room for judgement from people you went out of your way to avoid. I believe that you received a lot of judgement from atheists in your 2 short years of theism, but you should expect it. You come into our forums wanting information from us about our thoughts so you can write a book on how to SAVE us. What the fuck did you expect? Which part of WE DO NOT NEED OR WANT SAVING do you theists fail to understand? Do we need to put a verse number next to the sentence before it registers? Okay, I can do that.

And the lord said, atheists do not need nor want to be saved by you lot. Now quit being annoying and enjoy your life. 2 Serb 3:16

the only difference with me is now i am alot less combative. i no longer feel the need to prove or justify or defend my beliefs.

Good for you! Believing in things without proof or reason. Faith is awesome!

number 2. judging by some of your responses i can tell that many of you know absolutely nothing about christianity or the bible or the history of it.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Again with the judgements.
You do realize that most of us here have read the bible many, many times. Most of the people here have been christian for over 20 years, some studying to be part of the clergy. Some raised by members of their churches. And some of us are history buffs, who have spent most of our time with our noses buried in random history books, including books about the "historical accuracy" of your holy book. You have studied the bible for 2 years, and you act as if you wrote the damn thing. I'm sure you are excited about your book idea, and eager to educate us heathens, but let me warn you now, you are in way over your head. If after 30 years of being atheist, you fall for theism, you are not prepared for this place.

i was the same way though. i would study scripture that seemed to contradict other scripture.

So, you read the bible then. Okay. The entire book contradicts itself. What is your point.

i would use the christian words and terminology and quote their book in order bait them into theological pitfalls.

There is a lot of theological pitfalls, again the entire book is a jumbled, ranting mess.

i would catch them in a part of the bible they werent too familar with and then i would say "see you are preaching the bible and you dont know it" case closed and i was good at it.

If you were good at it, the case wouldn't be closed if a theist was caught not knowing his book. Just like the case is not closed with you right now. You fail to explain yourself and support the things you are saying, so we will continue to question you until either you answer us honestly, and provide evidence, or you do what most other theists do when they visit, call us names and rage quit.

i realized then that i was only studying words and wasnt too concearned what it all meant in context.

And what did it all mean? What context did you have to put it into for it to matter, or make sense? Who told you how to study it, what passages to read? I bet it was a priest or another theist.

i would ignore scripture that i actually agreed with. when it all came down to it.

That is a fault in your logic then. There are scriptures that I agree with, but that doesn't mean that they are worth considering, or that they outweigh the rest of the atrocities and bigotry in the book.
I'm sure that if I dug deep enough into Hitler's life, I would be bound to agree with something he said or did at one point in his life. Oh, wait! There is! He loved animals! I love animals! Holy shit! Hitler is awesome! I totally forgive him for all the war and genocide stuff.

as i started learning more and witnessing a few miricles of my own. i started to realize that the only reason i hated christianity was because i didnt fully understand it.

Please provide evidence for miracles. Scientific evidence. If you were atheist for 30 years as you claim, you would be well aware that personal experiences are not evidence. Thus another reason why we think you are lying to us.

Again, hating christianity does not make you atheist. Atheism, is a lack of belief in gods. If you were atheist for 30 years, or just bothered to use Google, or a dictionary, you would know that.

and the only reason i hated christians was because i had felt judgement from people who claimed to be christian.

That's the only reason? You had no beef with them killing doctors, bombing abortion clinics, condemning use of condoms, praising AIDS. hating homosexuals, other religions, trying to undermine science and the progress of humanity? All that stuff was perfectly cool? And before you start saying how that is not biblical teachings, I posted some examples that cover this stuff in one of my other replies to you. If you are as versed in the scripture as you claim you are, you will know this.

p.s. notice RobertPiano gave me a gigantic opening to burst in with my testemony and preach my beliefs. my motives are legitamately trying to get more atheists perspectives. thats it.

Lies. Your motives are to "save" atheists. You are here spewing condescending nonsense in only one sentence. You assume that atheists need to be saved, that we need your intervention in our lives, to educate us. Your book idea is proof of this. You think, that with your 2 years of bible study, you are better versed in it than people who have spent decades in the religion, or studying it, and you take the arrogant stance of the knight in shining armor, saving the people you care about, without even bothering to understand why they hold the opinion they have, or without asking them if they need, or even want your so called help and salvation.

you wont catch me preaching to you. (unless you personally write me an email and ask me to) or disrespecting you or what you believe in.

You have disrespected us. You judge and make false assumptions about us, you claim you are better educated than us, yet you know nothing of us, and you make the ignorant, arrogant assumption that your way of life is best for everyone, and that you have the right to interfere in people's lives, and decide that the only way they will be "saved" and happy is if they believe what you tell them to.

the only thing i do is call people out when they give an inaccurate representation of christianity. 

Then provide us with evidence of our transgressions. If we are giving inaccurate representations of christianity, please provide us with actual, factual, tangible evidence of where we went wrong.

i would expect an athiest to do the same if i made a broad untrue statement like "atheists believe there is a god, they just dont like him"

And that is why we are having this discussion. You are making broad, untrue statements. You think that being atheist = hating christianity. You assume that atheists need to be saved. You assume that you are better versed in scripture and history than we are. And worst of all, you assume that your religion is true.

Comment by CAMERON W on January 18, 2013 at 1:29pm

i want to thank you all for participating so far. i can feel the love lol. just want to clear a couple of things up. even though i posted a response somewhere on page 2 or 3, i think most of you skimmed it or didnt read it at all.

1.i do realize that i will have to edit, capitalize and spell check before i finish the book. this is a discussion and i am writing conversationally. not trying to write a thesis here.  although if it makes you feel better to make fun and insult me for not capitalizing and misspelling things, then by all means. your words are not hurtful.

2. i do not have to prove i was an atheist, and again, i know that atheism is not an affirmative belief, its a lack of belief. got it. already said that. if someone says that, for the first 30 years of their life, they did not believe that god existed, i dont know why you would accuse that person of lying. perhaps you are used to people trying to decieve you. i dont know.

3 despit what many of you think, i did not come here to argue my religion. even though some of you have engaged and asked me for my opinions, i can tell that you dont really want to know where im coming from, you just want some more ammunition to insult me with.  im sorry if you felt insulted and felt the need to defend yourself in an aggressive manner, was not my intention.    

last point. to those who ask why i came here and why i dont just rely on my own experinces. if i were a recovering alcoholic, writting a book for non alcoholics. and a large portion of my book was to try to get non-alcoholics to understand the thought process and experiences of alcoholics. would it not be more beneficial to interview and get insight from multiple alcoholics, or just rely on my own experiences of alcoholism and say "yup, that about sums up what its like to be an alcoholic." ?

 with that being said, i would like to thank all of you for your imput. you all have been very helpful so far. please continue, this is all great insight. i would especially like to thank Spacious Hawk, Diane, and Kris F.  i think your responses were the only ones that did not start with insults.

 

Comment by Brenda Lee on January 18, 2013 at 1:38pm
Are you capable of posting a comment without being rude and insulting? It sounds to me that you're looking to us for an arsenal of excuses to explain away to your fellowship why you fell off the Christian wagon over the holidays.

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