Ex-Athiest writing a book on how to save you godless heathens

hi there friends. i am an ex athiest and im a putting togethter a book/blog for christians about understanding and then saving athiests. I PROMISE, I AM NOT TRYING TO SAVE YOU! but i would greatly appreciate your input.

like i said i used to be an athiest. actually i was more of an anti-christian. i was very thorough wile compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. i had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but i could use more.

lets face it. alot of christians are annoying, i agree, but the big idea here is that most christians have absolutely no concept of life without god. so they dont understand athiesim at all. one of the purposes of my book is to illustrate that athiests are not all terrible satanists. that alot of them are actually really good hearted people.

if you are willing to help me out i would appreciate it. if not, feel free to tell me to go to hell lol... please respond to the following 2 statements/questions

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 


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Comment by Gregg R Thomas on January 20, 2013 at 12:47am


Go to Heaven and quickly please.  I hear there's a couple of pedophile priests going on Monday maybe you can catch a ride.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on January 20, 2013 at 1:38am
@Cam - Mistake No. 1 - Atheists don't believe in anything supernatural, and in that category comes your jesus, therefore don't need saving from figment of man's imagination.

Mistake 2. Your terminology belies you, you have never been an Atheist, You can jump up and down all you like in protestation, doesn't work.

Mistake No. 3 - No, god, no jesus, therefore no argument.

Mistake No. 4 - You, as all christians do, cherry pick. Jesus is god, god is jesus, with a ghost thrown in -

Matthew 5:17-18
Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 
2 Peter 20-21 NAB -
Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."
So, if you follow jesus, you follow god, can't cherry pick on that one.
I do feel sorry for christians who may actually be good people, being taken in, and leading their lives in fear.
But the people I do detest are the ones who hide their crimes behind cloth and cross, and make laws up as they go, especially about women, and that is another story.
I detest the people who cannot possibly believe in a god or jesus, and commit the most heinous of crimes, raping of children, taking the money of poor, superstitious, downtrodden people, while the perpetrators of these crimes live in luxury.
And the most horrifying thing about all these crimes, is that christians aren't screaming about these heinous crimes against humanity.
Comment by James Cox on January 20, 2013 at 2:28am

Consequently, I do not believe you, has been seconded.

This ploy seems little over done. An ex-atheist seeking material for a book to help theists argue againist atheists? Hum. Why do you bother, surely your own experience, assuming that you were paying attention, could have enlightened you. Did returning back to the fold, cause the death of brain cells? A similar 'return' for me, would have involved some lose of function.

I do have to thank you for such an attempt, maybe atheists are still useful as a library of knowledge or insight, should they desire to play....    

Comment by MikeLong on January 20, 2013 at 4:56am

I agree - you were never an atheist. If you were, please give us details of your conversion. Here you are, an adult, rational, thinking atheist and, all of a sudden, you decide that, yes, there DOES exist a magical, invisible daddy in the sky after all? I don't think so. What happened? Did God appear to you in a dream? Did God intervene at a critical moment in your life - even though, at the time, you didn't believe he existed? Or did you examine your understanding of the universe, decide there was stuff you couldn't explain, and deduce that, therefore, GODDIDIT? Or did you do a thorough, rational analysis and determine that, on the basis of empirical evidence, a magic, invisible daddy in the sky was the only reasonable conclusion?

What irritates me most? The Bible. The infantile circular argument that God HAD to be the author of the Bible. It says so in the Bible - and God wrote the Bible so it must be true. I've challenged many Christians to explain why some materials written dozens or hundreds of years after the death of this mythical Jesus, materials which clearly demonstrate NO coherent morality, materials clearly authored by Bronze-Age men (none of whom had nearly as accurate an idea of the nature of things than the average (secular) 9-year-old today) should form the basis of any religion. Their response to my challenge? - Silence. So PLEASE tell why YOU used this Bible as a central argument against your Christian opponents when it DESERVES no more credence in answering questions about life than a Superman comic.

Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on January 20, 2013 at 8:40am

1. Jesus was illiterate, not omniscient.  He wrote nothing down.  He didn't even dictate his thoughts to someone who could write them down.  He failed to choose even one disciple who could write down his thoughts during his ministry.  Such a manuscript could have prevented the death and torture of millions.

2. The "annoying" characteristics of Christians have nothing to do with whether any of their religious doctrines are correct, but I'll play.

The most annoying characteristic of Christians is the historically well entrenched habit of killing, maiming, torturing, bullying, shunning, economically ruining, marginalizing or buttonholing people, including other Christians, who do not believe exactly the same things that they believe to be true.  And then smugly insist that this is the height of morality.

Comment by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on January 20, 2013 at 9:03am

The most annoying thing about books written by Christians who claim to have once been an atheist is that their books indicate that they know very little about the atheism they claim to have professed and very little about the flaws in the religion they have come to enthusiastically espouse.  Their type of former atheism has little in common with those who use the term to describe themselves.  It more closely resembles either apa-theism (not interested in religion) or igna-theism (general ignorance of religion). It has little resemblance to rational atheism - the thought out position on whether there is likely to be a god or not and whether the specific god of the person's upbringing and culture is likely to exist. 
The ploy of claiming to be something that the self-labeled members of a group do not accept as similar to themselves is a good way to start off at a disadvantage.  It's like telling a group of practicing homosexuals that you used to be a homosexual like them, on the basis of having experienced the usual temporary adolescent crushes on same sex friends. 
In other words, we real atheists do not identify with your form of "atheism" so we are unlikely to be moved by your argument that you used to be just like us and, by implication, we can therefore become just like you are now.  There is overwhelming evidence that rational atheism is pretty much a one-way street.  In order to regain the beliefs you lost through a prolonged process of thinking and examination of a wide variety of challenging material a person would have to forget all of what they learned during this extensive process.  Alzheimers dementia, seizure disorders or other kinds of brain impairment might do it but the maintenance of a health brain is sufficient inoculation against such a reversion.
If you want actual atheists to take your book seriously, instead of being alienated by the cover blurb, you will need to drop the pretense of ever being someone like them.

Comment by Obfuskation on January 20, 2013 at 11:54am

I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I’ll throw my two cents worth in.  I have a couple of comments to make on this thread, so I’ll keep this post to just answering CAMERON W’s questions.

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

My foundational position regarding the Christian myth is the same as that regarding all other religious myths; a complete lack of any evidence for the existence of the divine being that is being discussed at the moment.  Where Christianity is concerned, all you need to do is read the bible from cover to cover to understand how savage and ignorant the whole system is.

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians????

I don’t “find Christians annoying”, nor do I dislike them.  I interact with many more Christians than I do atheists, and most of them are people that I am proud to count as friends and coworkers.  My problem is with the behavior of a small group of zealots who wish to push their beliefs into the public sphere where they don’t belong (ie. Creationism taught in schools, assistance programs tied to proselytizing).  What people have rolling around in their heads is their business; it’s stupid and harmful behaviors that I dislike.

There you go.  Good luck with your book.

Comment by Obfuskation on January 20, 2013 at 12:02pm

My first post gave my answers to the OP’s initial questions.  I want to take a minute now to comment on other impressions I’m getting from this thread.

Regarding the book
The OP claims to be writing “a book/blog for Christians about understanding and then saving atheists”, and that “it is a book for Christians. and many of them are curious about my transformation”.  Then we have the caveat that “there are a few very close people in my life that, yes, i have an interest in saving. the rest of the world? to each his own i say.”  The lack of consistency tells me that the OP really has no clearly defined idea of what this book is supposed to be, if there is a book idea at all.

Regarding the OP’s atheism
The OP makes repeated statements that he was an atheist (for 30 years, with a caveat that he was more of an anti-Christian), and that he had an impressive list of counter-arguments against Christianity that he could articulate well.  At the same time, he is using terms like “devout atheist”, and says that he has “felt more judgment from atheists in 2 years of being a Christian than from Christians out of 30 years of atheism.”

The claim that he was debating Christians with a strong list of counter-arguments would indicate a well researched, active atheism.  Yet, we see things like “devout atheist”, “atheists are not all terrible Satanists”, “i spent my whole life surrounding myself with like minded people”, and an explanation of how he used to make his arguments that would indicate a novice level understanding of atheism from the perspective of a theist.  I claim that this inconsistency is an indicator that the OP’s claims are at least exaggerated, or at most fabricated.

Regarding the OP’s new found Christianity

I started to realize that the only reason I hated Christianity was because I didn’t fully understand it.
the only reason I hated Christians was because I had felt judgment from people who claimed to be Christian.
I started learning more and witnessing a few miracles of my own
I realized then that I was only studying words and wasn’t too concerned what it all meant in context

This is standard theistic trope.  As I stated above, any atheist who has done any homework would know these statements for what they are; erroneous perceptions of atheism from a theist’s perspective.  I see these as additional indicators that the OP’s claims are either exaggerated or fabricated.

I want to specifically address two more things.  I’ll start with this:

I realized then that I was only studying words and wasn’t too concerned what it all meant in context

The words provide the context.  The specific statements of a work act as bricks that make up the wall that is the overall picture.  Once you start claiming that words and phrases don’t mean what they say, you abdicate any ability to argue the meaning of those words and phrases, because you’ve just left them open to any interpretation that anybody chooses to give them.

…and I’ll end with this:

i no longer feel the need to prove or justify or defend my beliefs.

1 Peter 3:15  “be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you”

I doubt that you were the atheist that you claim to be, I am sure that you were no skeptic, and I get the impression that you should probably work to shore up your Christianity if that is the route you want to go.

Comment by Stutz on January 20, 2013 at 11:01pm

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

This question makes me think you've been swayed by the C.S. Lewis "lord, liar, or lunatic" argument, which asserts that, given Jesus' claims, there are three possibilities: he was actually the son of God, he was lying about it, or he was insane. They then cite some scripture and make various arguments that eliminate liar and lunatic, so that he could only be (viola!) the one true Lord. I've heard many Christian media personalities claim that the most important question anyone can ask oneself is "who do I think Jesus was?", which is often a precursor to the LLL argument. My answer is that this is a false trichotomy (like a false dichotomy, but there are three options presented instead of two). There is, at least, a fourth L to be considered: legend. The Jesus story is a legend, much like King Arthur or Odysseus. It's not about assessing Jesus's personality, it's about whether we can believe the things we are told about him. Imagine applying the LLL argument to King Arthur—it would be a ridiculous thing to do because we don't assume the King Arthur legend is a factual historical account, even though it was likely based on real persons and events.

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians????

I don't dislike the Christians I know and love in my everyday life, obviously. I do dislike that there are some opinions they hold that seem like they are the result of Christianity corrupting their thinking. I have a female co-worker, probably the nicest, happiest person I know, who occasionally says the most shockingly misogynisic things, like about how women are not as smart as men, or shouldn't be engaging in certain masculine activities, or how her husband makes the decisions about their money and lifestyle as the head of the household.  She has also told me that they do not even have retirement accounts because they give most of their income to their church! It's disgusting, and so sad (they are nearly 40 and have three kids)! It almost goes without saying that she is homophobic (in the love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin kind of way).

One of my best friends, who knows I'm an atheist, has suggested I pray for help with a medical issue. My mother tries to give me books to read that look like interesting nonfiction, but are actually elaborate testimonials written by Christain authors. This is the kind of stuff I am annoyed by, but mostly am disappointed by. I love these people but why do they have to be so dumb in some ways? But I know why: they've bought into Christianity, they've cast their lot with this worldview, and it corrupts their thinking in subtle ways.


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