Ex-Athiest writing a book on how to save you godless heathens

hi there friends. i am an ex athiest and im a putting togethter a book/blog for christians about understanding and then saving athiests. I PROMISE, I AM NOT TRYING TO SAVE YOU! but i would greatly appreciate your input.

like i said i used to be an athiest. actually i was more of an anti-christian. i was very thorough wile compiling my arsenal of anti-christian material, and was very articulate when fighting christians. i had a long list of great arguments against christianity, but i could use more.

lets face it. alot of christians are annoying, i agree, but the big idea here is that most christians have absolutely no concept of life without god. so they dont understand athiesim at all. one of the purposes of my book is to illustrate that athiests are not all terrible satanists. that alot of them are actually really good hearted people.

if you are willing to help me out i would appreciate it. if not, feel free to tell me to go to hell lol... please respond to the following 2 statements/questions

what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????

what is the most annoying thing about christians? or what do you dislike about christians???? 


Views: 1457

Tags: christian, ex-athiest., good, jesus

Comment by Brenda Lee on January 18, 2013 at 3:29am

Does this sort of thing happen a lot here?

Comment by Sagacious Hawk on January 18, 2013 at 4:20am

Well, thank you for your honesty and your openness. I apologize for what may have been baseless accusations (on the internet, one can never be sure). A piece of advice if you are dead set on making this book a reality: as a person passionate about literature and communication, I can tell from your writing style and blatant disregard for certain rules concerning writing that you will need to find an editor with superior qualities in editing and patience, because preparing any book that you have written for a wider audience will need a considerable amount of work to make sure that the audience does not think that you are an 11-year old posing as an adult, which is about what I'd mistaken you for.

You'll have to come to terms with our skepticism here. Firstly, it's sort of a part of who we are, and secondly, there have been a few people of late who have seemed to come around to instigate fights. So do we make judgments of others? The truth is that all people are. As soon as we meet a person, we make a judgment. We do so based on body shape, body language, quality of voice, actions, words, and overall appearance just for starters. You make a judgment based on our responses as much as we have made one based on yours. You say that you disliked Christians because you "felt their judgment". Whether a person can be said to be judgmental in my opinion hinges on whether or not a person is willing to reassess those judgments as new evidence arises or whether a person refuses all new evidence to stick to the original assessment. Just because people express their opinion of you doesn't mean that they are being judgmental. It simply means that they are willing to speak their minds and treat with you honestly. I am certain your Christian friends have judged you in a similar manner; they just don't tell you what their judgments are.

Most atheists happen to like evidence and are more than willing to assess their given position based on the evidence that they have. So when I say that from my experience that we are not judgmental, it is from my definition of judgmental that I make that statement as well as my experience dealing with atheists both as a Christian and as an atheist. It has also been my experience (and many others on this site) that Christians as a whole are more resistant to evidence and tend not to reconsider their positions in light of new knowledge. This is why we say that Christians are judgmental. It is unfortunately too typical that when discussing things with a Christian that they will take a position, fortify it, and then refuse to even acknowledge basic facts. How you haven't experienced this in your 30 years of atheism, I'm not certain.

I can hopefully shed some light on why you have faced more criticism from atheists in the last two years since becoming a Christian. I think it might be similar to the same thought I first had as soon as you said "ex-atheist." My immediate reaction was, "how could he go back to believing what he had thought was false was suddenly true?" At this point, I think we all become instantly skeptical of any atheistic positions you might have had. Certainly if they were strong enough or if you had enough knowledge to know why Christianity was wrong about it's claims of the world, then you wouldn't have stopped being an atheist. For myself, I see anyone who claims to be an ex-atheist as someone who has given up learning about how the world is and has instead embraced learning about a fantasy version of the world. The more a person understands how we got here today through the history of the earth, the methods by which religion developed, and the history of any religion, then the more a person realizes how tenuous claims of any religion are. I see an ex-atheist as a person who has given into only one side of an argument without properly assessing whether those arguments are correct and in doing so has been conned into believing a fantasy version of the world where the laws of nature simply don't apply.

As it stands to your questions, I'm with Kris on this one. I, too, am curious why you need our input and why not stick you your 30 years of experience as a atheist? If you are an expert on your subject, why solicit us for information that we can reasonably expect that you possessed at one point?

Comment by Sagacious Hawk on January 18, 2013 at 4:22am

Brenda, these things don't happen alot, but they do happen often enough to warrant skepticism and defensiveness on our part.

Comment by Brenda Lee on January 18, 2013 at 4:27am

And we are the ones considered hostile and immoral. 

Comment by Karl Mugele on January 18, 2013 at 4:53am

Hi Cameron

Everyone was an atheist when they were born, so all the christians you know were atheists at one point.  Most were indoctrinated by their parents but some may have been indoctrinated later, by friends or other members of society that follow the christian cult.  I use the term indoctrination explicitly because you have to attend sermons, be told and accept unsubstantiated stories and receive "christian" advice from adherents.

To specifically answer your questions:

"what is your best argument against jesus. not god, but jesus specifically????"

As someone wrote above, I was under the impression that "Jesus" was considered part of the god.  However, getting past that immediate response, there is no evidence that Jesus ever existed.  I presonally believe that Jesus (the man) probably did, but that's purely based on the "no smoke without fire" principle, which is indirect evidence so shakey.  The Roman empire at the time have no records of him and Judeo-christian writings about him only started 60 years after his death.

"what is the most annoying thing about christians?"

As long as they don't try to preach to me I don't find christians annoying.  Being woken up on a Sunday morning by a couple of fresh-faced teenagers asking me if I've heard about "the son of god" is infuriating, not annoying, but if they keep themselves to themselves, great.  I also do take exception to them preaching to my child...clearly I don't want him braqinwashed into this fantasy either.

"what do you dislike about christians????"

As above - preaching, conversion attempts, some weird idea that they are more right and other religions more wrong...

...and of course, the historical slaughter of people who opposed christianity.  The christian church has historically been responsible for more deaths than the Nazis, and yet they seem to think they represent good.

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on January 18, 2013 at 5:31am

"i had a long list of great arguments against christianity"

Cameron, your line stirs a memory: "It's easier to change dogmas than to give up the need for a dogma."

Comment by Karl Mugele on January 18, 2013 at 5:49am

Good call Tom Sarbeck...

If Cameron really had been an atheist, why would he have needed a long list of great arguments against christianity?

This is yet another really weird idea perpurted by christians, that atheism is somehow another "religion" or cult.  I had a discussion with a christian from the US at a party in London one time, where her argument was that I could only be an agnostic.  The reasoning appeared to be that by oppsosing a religion I accept it's validity, perhaps in the same way that devil worshippers (if there really are any) are really just followers of one or other Abrahamic religion that are intrigued by evil.  The ones who came to devil worship from christianity could be described as christian fans of the devil.  The atheist / agnostic argument being that if I accepted the validity of christianity as a religion, then I was religious but had somehow become unsure.

Of course, all this is nonsense.  If you don't believe, you don't believe.  That's not an acceptance of the validity of other's beliefs, only, if you are pragmatic and fair, you should accept others right to believe, in the same way you might let your kid believe in goblins and giants while young, for the titilation and the way the idea of these mythical creatures and fantasy worlds fire your kid's imahgination.

You'd be a pretty unkind person to crush someone's fantsasies, no matter what their age is, so the "long list" was a little unfair of Cameron.

Comment by Casey Mc on January 18, 2013 at 7:53am
Everyone wrote my main arguments against Jesus so I'll just say that what I dislike most about Christians. It is exactly what you are attempting to do with your blog and book. Stop getting in everyone else's business, worry about your own "soul" and leave mine alone. Also I really hate the face of pity,hurt, anguish, and confusion when I tell a Christian I'm an atheist. Get over yourselves.
Comment by Hank Hell on January 18, 2013 at 8:10am

As for Jesus, all likelihood would suggest that he was just a man, and since the simplest answer is usaually the truest, I feel perfectly comfortable with that conclusion. I don't argue "against jesus" so much though, as I don't give a fuck about what other believe

Now the second question is really simple for me. I feel that christians, in their desperation to assuage their fears of death, are willing to condem wave after wave of innocent people. I think that if you're willing to imagine an innumerable horde of people suffering for eternity, just because you don't have the strenght to face human mortality, then you are a weak, fear driven, sheep person.  

Comment by Grady Jean on January 18, 2013 at 9:14am

My biggest problem with Christians is, without a doubt, the way they see it as their personal right to impose their morality, their world view, their religion, on every one else through violence, coercion, and legislation. It's abhorrent and disgusting to think of the lives that have been ruined by religious intolerance. It makes my ears bleed when I hear "Christians" blaming the troubles of our country on the "Godless Heathens". Every time someone demands we bring God back, I'm forced to think: "Wait, aren't there already functioning theocracies in the world? Have these people never heard of the middle east?" Of course they haven't. Because, like the narrow minded idiots they are, they can't see past their own ludicrous beliefs. They can't accept logic and reason, and despite their moronic claims of knowing the "One True God", they don't seem to know much at all. Their answers and arguments are flimsy, their defenses are paper thin.

Then there's YOU. You come in here with a mask on your face, this mealy mouthed apologist spew about how "You're not trying to convert anyone" and you "Just want our input". My fellow Thinkers here have already made the only point that needs made about YOU, good sir: If you truly had anywhere near as much experience with Atheism as you claimed, you wouldn't need  to ask for our input; You could just use your own. Even if you were trying for different view points on the subject, you could do a simple Google search for "Arguments against Jesus" or "What annoys you about Christians", and you'd have everything you needed. If you're a 30 - to 35 year old ex-Atheist who wants to write a book, then I'm a Nigerian Prince with a vault full of cash I'd like to share with you.

If you were a spy, you'd be sort've like this guy: http://macromeme.com/dog/disguised-chris-hansen.html


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