I'd like to get people's thoughts on this blog post: http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2012/10/your-daily-dose-of-rape-...

Please disregard the comments following the post--as is so often the case, the discussion there becomes a pissing match, and therefore irrelevant. I just want to know what people think about the initial subject. Does Western culture condone rape, in the mechanism of oblivious chauvinism? If criminal acts happen in a culture, does that define the culture?

Again, I honestly want any responses to be limited to the initial blog post. So tell me what ya think.

grey

Views: 262

Comment by Obfuskation on November 15, 2012 at 8:08pm

I had a couple recent conversations regarding "Rape Culture", and look at it as a creation of the more rad-fem elements of the feminist movement, that has somehow gained traction because of the gut-level impact of it's message.

Rape is horrible, and does impact more women than men; that is not in question.  What is ignored in the equation it's low statistical probability, and the fact that the majority of sexual assaults are committed by somebody that the victim knows, contrary to the "stranger danger" message the RC proponents seem to push.

What is also ignored is the widespread sympathy to the "rape culture" message that reflects a culture that abhors the act, and which would seem to contradict the message itself.

Comment by greyfoot on November 15, 2012 at 8:26pm

Ob,

That's my reaction almost verbatim. The author issues broad sociological statements without backing them up. Had she cited a specific portion of our culture, she might have a little more credibility. But her indictment is of the entire culture, and there's far too much evidence to the contrary.

I really want to hear from more women on this, too, though. I'd like as many perspectives as possible.

Comment by Strega on November 15, 2012 at 9:21pm

There seems to be a dividing line between "statutory rape" and "forced rape".  In the case of the latter, we are all opinionated against it.  Statutory rape is much trickier because the "victim" may be very willing, just not of legal age to make the call wisely. 

I grew up with Jimmy Savile in public life.  He was a radio DJ when I was a young teen, he was a TV presenter when I was older, and he did loads of charity work and he was a bit eccentric.  I'm really upset he turned out to be a teen-molester.  But we are talking about London, England, here, not some poor country.  Where were the bloody parents?  How did all this get brushed under the carpet?

I remember going to the local dance when I was 14.  The sneaking of make-up out of the house so we could paint our faces in garish colours.  Luckily, our potential partners at these dances were also young teens, although I do remember the vicar (yeah it was held at a church hall) finding a used condom on the grounds and reading everyone the riot act.  At least ten boys claimed it was theirs.

We really did look like tarts.  We were what is called "jail bait" and we thought we knew it all.  If it looked like we would have got the interest of a (gasp) famous man, who thought we were attractive, I don't think we would have run screaming from a fumble.  I can now understand why there are laws for underage sex, but forty years ago, in England, we sure as hell thought we knew everything.

The problem with our society is that there are so many rules, it's not always clear which ones are good and which ones are a bit silly.  I smoked my first joint when I was 14.  I got drunk too, around that age.  Went in to an Adult rated (over 18) movie when I was 15.  As teens, we would do anything to seem older than we were.

I'm really not convinced that there is evidence that a whole lot of forcing was going on.  Not that it makes it a pretty tale, but if these girls were anything as ghastly as my age group was in those days, they may well have been eager to please, in an inappropriate way.

If a parent goes to the police with an accusation of child molestation in England, I'm just not convinced they would have been turned away, irrespective of whether it was a TV presenter, a politician, or a rock musician who is being implicated.

I don't know, grey, it's a tricky one.  The blog itself, incidentally, isn't written with much style, it just seems to be meandering about.  Not my cup of tea.

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 15, 2012 at 9:44pm

Hey Greyfoot,

Please disregard the comments following the post--as is so often the case, the discussion there becomes a pissing match, and therefore irrelevant. I just want to know what people think about the initial subject. Does Western culture condone rape, in the mechanism of oblivious chauvinism? If criminal acts happen in a culture, does that define the culture?

Again, I honestly want any responses to be limited to the initial blog post. So tell me what ya think.

Ask any man or woman and you'll get a million different definitions as soon as you get far enough into the weeds to see where they really stand on the definition of rape. Consequently, the "buy-in" of the male population, and to some degree the female population, has not perfected. Therefore, yes, it is a rape culture, like most societies. But it is a rape culture because men have never been given clear boundaries about what rape is. There needs to be a society-wide consensus that is clear and concise about what rape is. Just saying "no" doesn't clear it up in every case either and I hope we don't need examples to show why ... ;-)

- kk

 

Comment by greyfoot on November 15, 2012 at 10:12pm

Streg,

That's a very interesting perspective, especially from (no stereotype intended) a woman, who I actually want to hear from most, considering the implications of the initial blog. An idea of an older generation's view is very profitable for this discussion. I hope we get more.

Kir,

I think you can pretty much count on a demand in proceeding comments for such examples. Heh.

Comment by Unseen on November 15, 2012 at 10:54pm

1) Please use the Forums rather than a blog. In a forum, one can hit Reply and Edit if one notices a mistake in that reply.

2) "Most of all, it's the product of a culture that teaches men that they are entitled to other people's bodies." I never got that memo.

3) "Most pedophiles, I believe, rape children because children are easier to rape than adults." No, pedophiles fantasize about sex with prepubescent children. Once puberty is reached, it's no longer pedophilia, it's statutory rape. Rape by legal art, in other words.

4) The hysteria around pedophilia is dysfunctional. It increases the pressure by the pedophile on the victims to be silent, often done by threatening the lives of their parents. In the worst case scenario, the pedo murders the child to cover up the crime.

Comment by greyfoot on November 15, 2012 at 10:58pm

Unseen,

1) Very good points you make.

2) You're absolutely right about the blog--I was wondering why there was no reply button. I very rarely deal with forums anymore, so I'm not that knowledgeable. My mistake. I'll be mindful of that in the future.

Comment by Strega on November 15, 2012 at 11:17pm

Yes, you are a perfectionists worst nightmare, grey!  

I actually prefer this format because new posts don't turn up all over the place and I know where I got up to on my last sweep.  But I know other posters can cope with that.

Oh, and cheeky! Calling me "older generation".  Laughs (and carefully checks for typos before hitting Add Comment)

Comment by Erin on November 16, 2012 at 12:22am
I found the blog very tough to read and follow, as well. This Jerry Savile character is one I'm not familiar with, having just heard of him recently on some late night talk show. I think I might have something to add, but I was hoping you could clarify what you mean by oblivious chauvinism. And I think what defines our culture isn't what criminal activities happen, but how they are dealt with, the US comes to mind here with their huge percentage of jailed citizens. And I guess if you can easily get away with rape, then that makes it a rape culture? Am I on the right track here? I cannot begin to imagine why people are pedophiles, but I do get that people blame victims and I know victims blame themselves. How confusing for someone to terribly assault you, but this assault gives you incredible pleasure, and they're telling you they love you, it's really messed up for the poor kids. They probably start wanting more and more of the abuse and hating themselves for it. Sometimes I wonder if judges aren't all pedophiles due to the incredibly light sentences they seem to impose.
Comment by Kir Komrik on November 16, 2012 at 12:42am

Hey Erin,

Sometimes I wonder if judges aren't all pedophiles due to the incredibly light sentences they seem to impose

lol. You will know them by their rulings ;-)

- kk

Comment

You need to be a member of Think Atheist to add comments!

Join Think Atheist

  

Blog Posts

People

Posted by ɐuɐz ǝllǝıuɐp on July 28, 2014 at 10:27pm 4 Comments

Services we love

We are in love with our Amazon

Book Store!

Gadget Nerd? Check out Giz Gad!

Advertise with ThinkAtheist.com

In need a of a professional web site? Check out the good folks at Clear Space Media

© 2014   Created by Dan.

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service