Is it just me, or does everybody on here sound like pathetic politicians, just trying to make themselves sound more believable putting others down than proving themselves? Has anybody heard of the phrase, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar?," or has the complex design of human intelligence been reduced to stupidity?

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Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on September 11, 2012 at 4:48am

Hi Warofages – I am interested in this “presence” of god you feel. How does it manifest itself? Do you feel a warm glow? Do you speak (pray) to it and does it answer back? If so what does its voice sound like? Could you please also answer my question from my last post above – do you expect this “presence” to make you immortal after you die?

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on September 11, 2012 at 5:09am

@Unseen – that is a good observation you make re Pascal’s Wager. I also use it as an indicator of someone’s’ understanding of the nature of belief. When I hear someone make the challenge I think to myself “oh no not again” and my will to debate starts to wane. Hitchens

Comment by Unseen on September 11, 2012 at 9:05am


This isn't a criticism but a commentary.

I used to wonder (without being theistic) how the universe could spring from nothing. Now I think it's most likely that there never was nothing, but there was a time when the universe we know didn't exist yet. It sprang into being from a larger reality which has existed forever.

The universe we know isn't a creation, which implies a creator, but is part of a larger process. A super universe or multiverse, if you will. Once one takes that theory seriously, there no longer is any mystery. No longer does something explode into an empty universe that was sitting there waiting for content, rather the universe began with that explosion, for there's no such thing as space with nothing at all in it. Space is created by its content.

This universe we live in had a beginning, in my view, but the super reality in which it and other universes exist is most likely etermal. Thus we no longer need to say that something spring into existence out of nothing, but just that "something happened" that created our universe, and that that event is part of an ongoing process, not a creation.

Comment by Emperor Milos on September 11, 2012 at 10:36am


i mean, why not believe in God? or a god? What is there to look forward to after you die? Do you guys believe in an afterlife or is it just nothing?

Apologies if we came off hostile, but your original post was not very friendly and we simply replied in kind.

Now that you have your questions asked, we are all more than willing to answer.

why not believe in God? or a god?

Why believe in God, or a god? Which one? How do you come to that conclusion and disregard all the others? Why not the FSM, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? All of them have the same answer. There is overwhelming proof against their existence. Most of the things we used to need God, or gods to explain, are now easily explained by science. The gods that remain, are now gods of the gaps. And those gaps are getting smaller by the day.

I will lump your next two questions into one if that is okay, since they pretty much lead to the same answer, at least from me.

What is there to look forward to after you die? Do you guys believe in an afterlife or is it just nothing?

There is nothing to look forward to after you die, because when you die, you no longer exist. You go back to being the same like before you were born. You can somewhat look forward to being a worm farm for a bit, or mantlepiece decoration, but aside from that, there is nothing to look forward to. Death is the final Game Over. Think of it like playing Day Z, or Diablo on Hardcore mode. No respawns.

These questions have been answered in a different post recently, let me find a link.

Same question pretty much.

Now I would like to ask you what I'm sure others already have.
Why do you believe, if you do, and in what? By your profile picture, I would hope not Yahweh or Jesus, because a pentagram is the devil's logo in their books. But whatever it is you believe in, why do you not believe in the other gods?

Why do you believe in whatever you believe in regarding death? On what grounds do you come to that conclusion?

Comment by Nerdy Keith on September 11, 2012 at 12:33pm

Someone obviously just hurt your feelems and you are all upset now. We're sorry. Forgive us?

Comment by Pope Beanie on September 11, 2012 at 1:43pm

@Unseen, I agree that the "from nothing" explanation doesn't help us understand much. It's almost as useless as a "GodDidIt" explanation. The whole process of science (and communicating science) only helps us understand things when it explains something. If I were a physicist or cosmologist, I might appreciate the "from nothing" explanation as a metaphor of universal time being reset back to zero. But it doesn't help the layman understand much.

Comment by Unseen on September 11, 2012 at 1:57pm

@Pope Paul, I'm not sure what you're saying. I wasn't offering an explanation. Indeed, there is none. Just educated speculation.

Comment by Pope Beanie on September 11, 2012 at 2:12pm

OK, educated speculation. If I'm not making sense, sorry, I have to leave it hanging. Gotta go now!

Comment by warofages on September 13, 2012 at 10:18am

@Reg The Fronkey Farmer

I'd say more or less not really a glow, sort of like it, but more of a sense of comfort. Yes, i do pray, and to be technical, i've never literally heard a voice in the sense of what other humans would say a voice is, but i have enough evidence to know i've been responded to. Before i took the christian faith, i had much doubt of if Jesus Christ a.k.a God was real, without really speaking it out in truth, more of an internal battle. Even though i've went to church my whole life, (i am currently 22 years old), i havent really took hold and accepted him until i was 17. He gave me signs i couldnt argue with, messages i heard in my sunday morning sermons that would prove the things that i would doubt and think about the week before. And to answer your question about living after death, i already know that i will. I survived a car crash when i was 9 years old, about a week before my 10th birthday, on my way home from church. I was asleep in the back of my mother's car with two of my sisters, and while i was sleeping, i felt a hard thump, my ears started buzzing, and i could hear in the background, very very faint, the sound of my little sister Kimberly saying "mommy, seanny's bleeding." I don't want to sound like a typical christian saying i saw a tunnel of light but i absolutely saw it. I didn't go into it. Instead i woke up on the side of the street in my mother's lap under a tree, everything was blurry and i heard the sirens coming. I spent the next 3 days in the hospital recovering from a cracked skull and getting my stomach sewed back together.

On the other hand, i understand many religions don't have any evidence, or at least what people would say HARD evidence to prove their existance. That is why, my friends, why its called having "faith." Now, the definition of the word, Faith, by the standards of is considered the following:
1)confidence or trust in a person or thing
2)belief that is not based on proof
3)belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion
4)belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.
5)a system of religious belief

I find it interesting that Evolution requires just as much faith for it to be valid in your eyes as Christ is in mine. And as a few of you have already stated earlier, men have done terrible things in the past (rape, murder, genocide, slavery, etc.), so why on earth would you put your absolute faith in a man that decide to create an idea that would come to this point, today, to define so many of you now? I also read from a few of you that you blame God for all the things that happened, but if God doesnt exist to you, who would you blame? Men? Back to the certainty of men again, which by the history of the world, men lie, men cheat, and men are flawed. I might as well put my faith in a fresh bag of premium cut bacon, which i enjoy. Christ is considered in the Bible by many a great teacher, and if you have ever taken an exam before, the teacher never speaks during a test. You must simply do it yourself.

As a few of the more crude and apparently "educated" crowd have spoken about, education and intelligence is only a mere prop used for play in an imaginary battle. I could tell you and make facts about how in the beginning, two giant cupcakes collided and in their collision converted their destruction into life and caused billions of micro-matter particles to explode into mass-changing atoms and created the earth as we know it, even if i had one evidentual fact, i could claim everything else was in fact true, all the while instigating against something that just "sounds absurd" to put it lightly.

Maybe some of you should take your own advice and read something about Creation instead of biting the hypocritical bullet.

Apologies if this comment sounds harsh, i'm just a little passionate :]

Comment by warofages on September 13, 2012 at 10:19am

please take the time to listen to one of your own :]


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