So who or what created the universe?

Is there anyone who doesn't ask this question? If not, why not? I'm pretty confident that any thinker has pondered this. Hmmm... why is this such a concern of ours? Why is this question in our mind? Why were we not content with just being? You know, as in the earth was always here.

Well, regardless, we asked.

Science is now telling us that the universe came into existence when a primordial start of elemental condition started to expand. Which still begs the question, "where did that came from?" It's difficult to imagine nothing into something; it just doesn't make sense. We are always going to be asking, "where did that come from?"

Creationist on the other hand have decided a source. Whichever god they choose has just always been there. But just as the previous theory, there isn't quite a satisfaction. You can argue recursive creation for both, but then you are left with option 3: the universe has always been here.

But again, if you say that, why can't you say "God has always been here," or "the elements have always been there." 

So, we are trying to pinpoint this beginning and are using the same arguments on each other as if they are irrelevant to our own theory. 

There must have been something that started it all. Either the elements existed forever or a creator. So now we have to chose which we like better. 

Which do you find more logical: something/someone has always been, or nothing turning into something? 

Views: 1941

Comment by Sagacious Hawk on September 3, 2012 at 8:15pm

@ Arch

I had not seen that. That's an interesting find; I'll have to bookmark it for later.


As a child, I had a great love of dinosaurs. At about the age of 5, I had already chosen what paleontologists said about the world over christian myth, but that had more to do with the fact that monstrous dinosaurs larger than my house and giant meteors crashing into the planet was a far cooler origin story than a garden with magic trees, a bunch of animals, and two naked people who get kicked out for eating an apple.

Comment by Gina Rodriguez on September 3, 2012 at 8:54pm

Why do we presume that there was ever nothing?  Nothing implies the absence of everything--from the miniscule molecule to the vacuum that it should be left with.  It is just as improbable and inconceivable that there was ever nothing as the notion that there has always been something.  The more important question is what we are doing with the time we have now, right??? :)

Comment by Gina Rodriguez on September 3, 2012 at 9:02pm

Ah!  Sorry.  I overlooked that you mentioned thus at the end of your post.

Comment by Unseen on September 3, 2012 at 9:19pm

@Rob Klaers


I thought it was Satan who was the deceiver and he planted the fossils. At least that's what I was told growing up.

That sounds like one of the many things Christians think up to make The Bible match up with the scientific facts.

Comment by Unseen on September 3, 2012 at 9:42pm

Gina, I don't think there EVER was nothing. Even nothing needs space for its nothingness to occupy. Prior to the birth of the cosmos, it's not there was an empty space waiting for something to happen. When the initial singularity exploded, it created space and time along with its expansion. Before the Big Bang there was actually less than nothingness, for our universe wasn't a space awaiting a Big Bang. Our universe simply didn't exist at all.

Comment by Michael on September 3, 2012 at 9:54pm


"Michael, anything that acts in the everyday universe of our lives is subject to its laws."

I have seen footage of UFO's doing sky manuevers as if completely independentof the Higgs field and as such exhibiting no inertia.

Open discussion: Scheduled for September 22, the one night event has a tease of speakers with credible insight into the mysteries surrounding the sky

Open discussion: Scheduled for September 22, the one night event has a tease of speakers with credible insight into the mysteries surrounding the sky

Col. John Alexander
Col. Bill Coleman

Speakers: Col. John Alexander, left,  is a UFO author and investigator while Col. Bill Coleman, right, served as the FBI's Project Blue Book chief spokesperson while serving in the U.S. Air Force

Also scheduled to join the discussion is Col Robert Friend who served as director of Project Blue Book that all together reported 701 unidentified sightings out of 12,618 throughout the years of 1947-1969, according to the now publically archived records.

Connecting the phenomenon internationally are scheduled guest speakers Nick Pope, who served as a UFO investigator with the U.K.'s Ministry of Defence, and Col. Charles Halt who was Deputy Base Commander at Bentwaters, the U.K.'s former Royal Air Force station.

Mr Pope is expected to share how both governments of the U.S. and U.K. held similar study groups over sightings and why both eventually closed their books on the issue.

Col. Charles Halt
Col. Robert Friend

Insight: Col. Charles Halt, left, who served as Deputy Base Commander at Bentwaters Royal Air Force station in the U.K. will speak along with Col. Robert Friend, right, who served as director of the FBI's Project Blue Book

International perspective: Nick Pope, a UFO investigator of U.K.'s Ministry of Defense is also a scheduled speaker on both governments' handling of the reports

International perspective: Nick Pope, a UFO investigator of U.K.'s Ministry of Defense is also a scheduled speaker on both governments' handling of the reports

Read more:


Comment by Unseen on September 3, 2012 at 10:08pm


I haven't even HEARD of anyone as gullible as you. You saw a movie. You obviously think, based on no evidence whatsoever, that what you saw was some sort of aircraft of spacecraft, whereas there are probably many other more likely explanations.

The line between having an open mind and a hole in the head is usually wide. But not in every case, it seems.

Comment by Unseen on September 3, 2012 at 10:10pm


You DO know what the "U" in "UFO" stands for don't you?

Comment by Yahweh on September 4, 2012 at 12:41am

Why I made it of course...
Jokes aside, you can't say for certain because it all is speculation.

then again a being snapping his fingers to form objects is really childish to believe in.

Comment by onyango makagutu on September 4, 2012 at 4:38am

@ Zia,

I didn't realize earlier you would be back so soon. 

The revelation to Prophet Muhammad was brought down to him by Angel Gabriel. There is no description whatsoever how this angel looks like. And in case you aren't aware, Gabriel is the same angel that made Mary pregnant, don't you think this is copying but for different ends. So this still remains in the parlay of dreams unless you have other convincing reasons to the contrary.

And Prophets are given miracles that cannot be performed by ordinary people so that people can recognize that these are not ordinary men and have been chosen by God to convey the message. On this matter why would god chose idiots for his works. Is it that god doesn't like sharp minds. He choses Moses a murderer and Abraham a pimp to lead his people. Why not reveal himself to Confucius 

 And God gave miracles of things that were well-known at that time. For example at the time of Moses it was magic, so Moses was given something that people knew it could not be magic. At Jesus's time medicine was well known and his miracles were such that no one could dispute that this is not a miracle. There is no historical/ archeological or whatever evidence of this miracles you mention here and again, if these things are mentioned in the Quran, don't you agree that they are copied from already existing literature!

Prophet Muhammad was given several miracles. Would you be as kind to list them and accompanying verifiable evidence to show they could actually have happened!

His greatest miracle is the Quran. At the time of Prophet Muhammad prose, poetry and language skills were at its peak, and the Quran challenged to bring a chapter like it and people could not till today. It is amazing in its eloquence, beauty and wisdom. Al-Razi claims to produce a thousand Qurans like this but does not producer a chapter. Regarding his saying "By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation."  His comment is so absurd, that I can only say, that read it for yourself. I promise to read when I got time in my hands some day in the future. I think you misunderstand Al Razi, why should he create another Quran? He is asking why would anyone want to recreate something that one fails to address history correctly and does not address current issues! You say it's good prose but it repeats what is observable in the natural universe. Just read it and then get out at night and tell me if you'll not be able to see stars on a dark night. Does god need to say the obvious? On production of the quran, there is evidence of a guy who created better prose[ i will have to find you a link] and I don't think he was allowed to live to tell the story especially with your brothers propensity to declare fatwas and stone for blasphemy.

The guy,Michael H. Hart, is not a historian. He even believes Moses existed and you dare mention him here. Now look for a book by Robert Spencer, Did Mohammed Exist. That is the direction of history now that i see you have not read history.

God has given us a free will to choose from and has shown us the right path and the wrong. It is up to us what actions we choose to do. The previous people decided to amend and change their scriptures due to their whims and desires and carelessness. The nation of Israel was blessed with several Prophets who came to remind them to return to God and Jesus was the last of them. I don't want to address the issue of free will since it has been ably dealt with by other people elsewhere. So if you may, spend time looking for what has been said about free will.

Then God sent Muhammad as the last Prophet and Messenger and gave him the Quran. Since there is no Prophet coming after him, God has promised to preserve the Quran till the Judgment Day, so those who seek guidance can find it. And exactly as you said, God guided people to ways that would preserve it. If you like the details on how it was done, then I could give it to you later. I guess it was preserved by cramming. How would you be so certain that Mohammad is god's last prophet? Don't you think god would want to adjust his methods maybe to include the internet, maybe have a twitter handle from where he tweets for all to see, join facebook so he can paste his photos, and join TA as well?. Maybe join the guys at NASA?

In fact we also believe in Jesus. A Muslim cannot be a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus. But we believe in him not as a son of God  or one of the trinity but as a great Prophet and Messenger born a miraculous birth without a father to virgin Mary. He never claimed to be the son of God or said that he should be worshipped. You are a very interesting guy, you insist that an angel talked to Mohammed and told him about jesus, but forgot to mention he is the son of god, while you say you believe in the same god as hebrews and christians? Don't you find this as contradictory! Or is god confused? He tells the christians this is my son, then he tells the muslims that he's just a good guy!


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