Tim Minchin Curses the Pope...a lot. Debate Ensues. (UPDATED WITH BETTER VIDEO)

In an article from the Examiner.com, the William Hamby explores the controversy surrounding Tim Minchin's song, "Fuck The Pope" that he performed at the Reason Rally. Catholic groups are raising hell (pun intended) and are saying it was blasphemy. Aside from that, people are also saying that the Rally was billed as family friendly and the cursing was too much.

My view is that both the organizers of the Rally and the people who attended, obviously didn't do any serious research as to those who were scheduled to speak because if they had, they would have known that many of Minchin's songs include vulgarity and swearing. Aside from that I'm pretty sure other speakers as well as the MC swore as well. Get over it people, adults swear. This was not a Disney/Pixar production of any sort. Minchin is BRILLIANT and dead on with this song. Check it out for yourself.

Anyway, the article can be found here, and below is the song and LYRICS. Enjoy and FUCK THE POPE!

Lyrics:

Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, he's a fucking motherfucker

Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the fucking fucker
Fuck the motherfucker, he's a total fucking fucker

Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, fucking fuck the motherfucker

Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the motherfucking pope

Fuck the motherfucker, and fuck you motherfucker
If you think that motherfucker is sacred (fucking motherfucker)
If you cover for another motherfucker who's a kiddie fucker
Fuck you you're no better then the mother fucking rapist
And if you don't like this swearing that this motherfucker forced from me
And reckon it shows moral or intellectual paucity
Then fuck you motherfucker, this is language one employs
When one is fucking cross about fuckers fucking boys

I don't give a fuck if calling the pope a motherfucker
Means you unthinkingly brand me an unthinking apostate, and
This has naught to do with other fucking godly motherfuckers
I'm not interested right now in fucking scriptural debate
There are other fucking songs and there are other fucking ways
I'll be a religious apologist on other fucking days
And the fact remains that if you protect a single kiddie fucker
Then pope or prince or plumber you're a fucking motherfucker

You see I don't give a fuck what any other motherfucker
Believes about Jesus and his motherfucking mother
I've no problem with the spiritual beliefs of all these fuckers
While those beliefs don't impact on the happiness of others
But if you build your church on claims of fucking moral authority
And with threats of hell impose it on others in society
Then you, you motherfuckers, can expect some fucking wrath
When it turn out you've been fucking us in our motherfucking asses

So fuck the motherfucker and fuck you motherfucker
If you're still a motherfucking papist (fucking motherfucker)
If you covered for a single motherfucker who's a kiddie fucker,
Fuck the motherfucker he's as evil as the rapist
And if you look into your motherfucking heart and tell me true
If this motherfucking stupid fucking song offended you
With its filthy fucking language and its fucking disrespect
If it made you feel angry go ahead and write a letter

But if you find me more offensive than the fucking possibility
The pope protected priests when they were getting fucking fiddly
Then listen to me motherfucker, this here is a fact
You are just as morally misguided as that motherfucking
Power-hungry, self-aggrandised bigot in the stupid fucking hat

Views: 1134

Comment by Ed on March 30, 2012 at 10:34pm

I am sure the use of profanity gets people's attention. But the problem is it probably focuses the listeners on the messenger and not the message. A thought provoking diatribe toward the church and it's sick priests without profanity could be equally effective. Hitchens was a master at that.

IMHO an important priority as organized atheists should be addressing issues in a manner that might lend us some credibility for the long political and social struggles we are confronted with. While it might feel good to get in their face on this particular issue the outcome is that we make no headway in gaining acceptance as a legitimate segment of our society. There is a huge population of our citizenry who are on the fence when it comes to religion. They are the ones I hope we can target for our cause. I think we lose sight of the bigger picture when we resort to shock and awe as a means to make a point. Catholicism and deviant priests are but one battle in a long war we must be prepared to fight.  

Comment by kris feenstra on March 30, 2012 at 11:34pm

"But the problem is it probably focuses the listeners on the messenger and not the message."

In this case, profanity happened to be part of the message.  The message is also possibly secondary to the entertainment value.  So no, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective.  Hitchens was a great speaker, but it's not as if he was the end all be all.  Let Hitchens be who Hitchens was, and Minchen be who Minchen is.  Beside, it's not as if Hitchens didn't offend plenty of people with or without the profanity.  If the cause is so sorely damaged by a fuck or two (or ninety) that's a sign of poor fucking progress.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 31, 2012 at 2:21am

So Tim Minchin went over the top - Why??? Tsk, Tsk, one just should not use that language - it might upset xians.

What's being questioned is whether this is the best way to go about trying to DO something about what the motherfucking pope is doing.  Are we simply getting people to dismiss us, more than we are getting them to think about this issue?

It obviously does not worry enough people, that xian pedophiles, hiding behind the cross, these people have been and are still practising - the only way previous victims are vindicated is if these bastards acrtually die - so they can't wreck any more children's lives. BUT, they have never been bought to justice.

The pope  recently visited Australia, and refused to meet victims. Cardinal George Pell treated these wrecked adults with disdain - get over it, move on.

Cardinal George Pell is currently living at the Vatican.

The pope recently visited Mexico and refused to meet victims - 23rd March 2012.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/world/03/22/12/abuse-vic...

Where is the catholics outrage against their pope - it is only secular peoples outrage that is driving any form of justice, and giving these many thousands of victims the courage to come out, and tell their story.

Catholics are not listening - the rally was not for xians - this was about pedophilia still happening - with impunity from the pope down - that is the message.

For a tad of extra reading - http://www.vaticanhidespedophiles.com/default.html

As Kris said - profanity happened to BE part of he message.

Comment by SteveInCO on March 31, 2012 at 4:22am

"So Tim Minchin went over the top - Why??? Tsk, Tsk, one just should not use that language - it might upset xians."

The true hard core Xian is not persuadable and not my concern here.  Nor catholics, who have mostly been told by the church that the pedophilia reports are part of some big plot against the church.

I am more worried that it might simply cause the not-all-that-committed (hence persuadable)--and this would include atheists and agnostics who maybe aren't all that "activist"--to decide we more active atheists are the sort of people who just get off on flinging rhetorical feces for its own sake; like teenagers who cuss just to try to shock grownups.  Long before they get to Tim's verse at the end about how you should be more outraged at Pope Ratfucker than him (hence finally explaining WHY the F-bombs are there), they've heard about 50 gratuitous-seeming "F-bombs" and decided he's just another guy with the "shock jock" mentality, and that we "radical" atheists are just asses for inviting him.

Again, the culpability and thorough evilness of the Catholic Church as an institution is not in question here, so honestly I don't know what you hope to persuade me of by including those links.  They indicate to me that you continue to miss my point:  That this may have been a tactical blunder.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 31, 2012 at 4:59am

Nor catholics, who have mostly been told by the church that the pedophilia reports are part of some big plot against the church.

I, my dear Steven, was a catholic, and have known four boys, who are now adults, who were abused from the age of seven, one twice a week for three years.

His mother found out, the big mistake is not going to the police. He committed suicide.

Was anything done to that priest, take a guess, what do you think - and this is still happening today. No xian is listening and I don't give a flying Duck about xians  who will not, would not, listen, no matter what is said. THAT is the point.

Tim has put it back onto xians, but especially the pope, that somebody is watching, listening to the stories of thousands of victims, and shining the light on HIM - the pope and his vatican at pedophile heaven.

I am not trying to convince  xians of anything, and neither is Tim - it is so Atheists take note - get angry -  that this is STILL happening today.

AND more importantly -  gives courage to boys who have been raped by protected priests - that SOMEBODY is actually listening - and to also relieve their burden of this deep dark secret that they have been carrying around, and just couldn't tell anyone.

I don't care about persuading or not persuading - I am on the side of the abused, the forgotten the ignored, the made to feel stupid - they are my concern.

I don't expect to persuade you of anything - this is my viewpoint, and I say Bravo Tim Minchin.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 31, 2012 at 5:14am

By the by Steve - 'Tactics' 'Tactics' - I don't "Do' tactics.

Whoops - better put your testosterone away - it is starting to ooze out of my computer :D.

Comment by Logicallunatic on March 31, 2012 at 5:19am

"fuck the pope" is mild (almost good mannered) compared to what I would call the paedophile enabling fucking Nazi cover-up artist. He should be in jail, yet he's worshipped for wearing a funny hat. What the fuck?

But I do prefer Minchin's Zomby Jesus.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 31, 2012 at 5:31am

I agree - he was invited to the Reason Rally because he is Tim Minchin and does go over the top -

The following is a nice interview when he was in Texas - reading this gave me heart about Texans :D   http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/nov/06/tim-minchin-mocking-god...

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on March 31, 2012 at 7:24am

This is an interesting link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/11/vatican-rejects-resignatio...

Sex Abuse by Country:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

And this is why pedophile victims don't come out:

http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/victims-of-pedophil...

And people get their knickers in a knot over motherfucker - go figure.

Comment by SteveInCO on March 31, 2012 at 4:42pm

OK, Suzanne, your argument is, basically, "Pope Ratfucker is really, really, really bad and he deserves to have these things said about him"

To which I agree, and agreed before I had even heard of Tim Minchin.  You can stop posting links to more info about the sex abuse, I get it.

My point is that maybe under some circumstances, we want to package the message a bit differently so that it will do some good in that context.  Is Minchin's song going to resonate amongst us?  It sure as hell will.  I plan to obtain a copy, in fact.  And I will get some of his other stuff too.  Will it do any good outside our little pocket universe of "radical" atheists?  Probably not.  Now why do I say that?  Well I'll get to that in a moment, but meanwhile:

Your response to that point has been "But Pope Ratfucker is really, really, really, REALLY bad and he deserves to have these things said about him!"

How is that in any way an answer to my argument?

-----

OK, now why do I think this song is ineffective, if not positively harmful, outside our little circle?

Because it's basic message is this:  "The pope is a [insert whatever you want here] for doing X, Y and Z, and if you are more upset with my language than you are with X Y Z you are fucked in the head."  Tim flies through the statement of the pope doing XYZ pretty quickly.

Tim is assuming his audience already knows and believes the pope has done X, Y and Z.  When talking to us, that's a good assumption to make.

But that's not a good assumption for the general public.  Believe me if they knew what we knew the pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers would have come out by now.  What does the general public--the man in the street--know about this?  Maybe he's heard about a couple of bad priests in his city.  Maybe he's heard about Boston and not forgotten it even though the media doesn't remind him about it.  He has not heard allegations the Pope is covering up for all this, even if his old name was Joseph Ratfucker.  He does not realize that it's not just one or two priests here and there, it's one priest out of 20 sticking their prongs where they don't belong.  He does not realize that priests just get transferred to Nunavut in Canada when this shit happens. (The church must figure that no one will care what happens to a bunch of Eskimos.) [Yes I know the preferred name is "Inuit" but I doubt the Church gives a flying fuck.]

So Minchin's song just comes across like a puerile exercise in cussing a lot and bashing a religious authority figure.

Now I'd love nothing better to see Joe Ratfucker in a YouTube video being led off in hand and foot shackles, with the Minchin song as a soundtrack.  But most people can't imagine why you'd want to arrest the pope--or if they do, they figure you are just a hater.  They aren't morally tone deaf, they areignorant of the issue.  They hear this song, and what they see is some eccentric (maybe even freakazoid) looking dude getting off on cussing and sassing a highly respected man.

And _that_ accomplishes nothing other than to make us look bad.

We need to educate people about this issue before we can have a juvenile tantrum in front of them condemning the perps (and those who refuse to stand with us in doing so).  And Minchin's song does nothing to educate.  It's for us already in the know, not the general public not in the know.

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