My interactions with some Atheist has lead me to believe that many put more emphasis on showing how "smart" they are instead of being "smart."  I can see why Christians and other "Theist" who haven't figured out that superstition ain't the way, get turned off by "uppity" folk who seem to talk down to them because their reference is usually a 2000 year old book filled with contradictions.  The Atheist I know, especially many of the white ones, are trapped into a techno intellectual mode that I think serves no real purpose but to their own ego because communication is sharing ideas, not vocabulary, the "art" of rhetoric, or enjoying mental masturbation. OK so you know god doesn't exist, now what?

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Comment by Arcus on March 27, 2012 at 11:43am

@Shabaka: Again, there is no such thing as a common European culture, and there is definitely a "cultural other" in many/most European countries. In mine (Norway) we have Samis and Kvens, which does not share anything with what is generally regarded as Norwegian culture. Around Europe there are many minorities with distinctive cultures and traditions, i.e. the Jews and Roma.

Not quite sure what meaning 'techno intellectualism' entails, but it does not seem to fit well with the concept/philosophy of deep ecology, which is quite popular in NWE. As for having 'power for control over Nature', by which I presume you mean dominating nature, it is something I do not recognize from my neck of the woods. If you could give examples it would probably be easier.

Lastly, harsh nature? Have you been to the area around the Med? It may be applicable to north of the beer belt, but it is you who insist on hobbling together all of Europe..

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on March 27, 2012 at 11:45am

Let's also not forget that French and Quebecois cooking, music, and art are all considered ethnic here, as well as English/Celtic music - as a matter of fact, the many folkfests held across Canada are a celebration of the ethnic contributions of all nations that have contributed to Canada, many of them being European and their contributions all being considered ethnic in nature.

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 11:45am

Heather I''m sure you see things that way, I get this type of denial all the time.  It's a hard pill to swallow for some/most member of the culture.

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 12:07pm

Heather and Arcus i don't want to belabour the point for the reasons I mentioned, but why was the ballet, symphony, (and arguably anthro-centered art) exclusively a product of the European cognitive mode and accepted THROUGHOUT European cluture (and due to cultural imperialism) throughout the world as the "standard?"  That's why the "high" was included in my original post.

Like I said I don't want to belabour the point with those who control the discourse due to historical white supremacy.  Are Atheist Elitist? 

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on March 27, 2012 at 12:18pm

There you go again, Shabaka - just disregarding facts, cited facts none the less, in order to steadfastly shore up your ignorant opinion.  I am not in denial of the degree to which my first nations ancestors have lost their heritage - but to suggest they have been so dissemated [sic] as to no longer have a voice in Canadian culture is to completely overlook the facts which have been provided - and cited.

Furthermore, to suggest there is not hegemony between Anglo and Franco Canada is to remain obstinately ignorant of the social structures that very much define Canada.  There has been, and remains, an aristocratic Euro-culture that enjoys ballet and the symphony - but let us not for a second pretend these are cultural norms, either in the U.S. or Canada.  That Canada as yet has a representative of a foreign monarch overseeing parliamentary affairs is, in fact, the very definition of hegemony.

Since I'm certain you are just going to remain obstinately ignorant, yet again, it is unlikely that I'll need to reply further.  I've already reiterated the very issues you have so blatantly dodged, and until you address them, it is obvious that you are not equipped to contribute to meaningful discussion.

Comment by Arcus on March 27, 2012 at 12:20pm

I would reply, but your arguments are mere Kabuki theater..

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 12:31pm

Heather, lol it's like trying to convince a theist there's no god..then you go with calling me ignorant.. don't do that because it's just not true.

Is the ballet a "mechanical" art form?  what about the symphony? marching a mechanical movement (technological (mathematical) instead of "rhythmic") African dance "mechanical" what about drum beats?  Again you say there's no European cultural mode exclusively to those located in the geographical areas we know today as Europe?

As for the First People of Canada, get real...there's a reason they lost their heritage.  

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 12:34pm

lol Of course you would think so Arcus.. refer to my statement about the "pill"

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on March 27, 2012 at 12:50pm

Exactly, Shabaka - and it's called hegemony, the very thing you said did not exist historically in Canada.

Comment by SteveInCO on March 27, 2012 at 12:54pm

One European culture?

Boy if they heard that one in Europe they'd die laughing.

What did start in some parts of Europe and which has spread across the whole continent was a conviction in the efficacy of reason.  But that hardly makes it one culture!  Other cultures that adopted this attitude have also done quite well in spite of not being European (e.g., Japan).


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