My interactions with some Atheist has lead me to believe that many put more emphasis on showing how "smart" they are instead of being "smart."  I can see why Christians and other "Theist" who haven't figured out that superstition ain't the way, get turned off by "uppity" folk who seem to talk down to them because their reference is usually a 2000 year old book filled with contradictions.  The Atheist I know, especially many of the white ones, are trapped into a techno intellectual mode that I think serves no real purpose but to their own ego because communication is sharing ideas, not vocabulary, the "art" of rhetoric, or enjoying mental masturbation. OK so you know god doesn't exist, now what?

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Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 3:29pm

Kris tell me how much of the Canadian economy do the indigenous people control?  How many laws do they make and can enforce on the general population?  Can they make civic appeals with success without the European being involved?

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on March 27, 2012 at 3:29pm

I'll repeat, there is plenty of hegemony in Canada is structures that you are unable to comprehend - and I know you can't comprehend them because I've explained them several times now and you still don't get it.  The point here is that you suggest there was no hegemony or cultural other in Canada and you are dead wrong.

Furthermore, you are dead wrong that Atheists wrap themselves in intellectualism as some sort of defense to being demeaned by the greater population - plenty of Atheists outside of the US wrap themselves in intellectualism and are not, as in 'merica', demeaned by the greater population.

Yes, Canada is rather enlightened in some ways - thank you.

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 3:33pm

lol Heather I think you turn my argument around..my point is that there IS a cultural other and that the Euro/English/French hegemony is alive and well

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 3:34pm

I can't argue about the intellecturalism because I'm not that familiar with Canadian society

Comment by Helen Pluckrose on March 27, 2012 at 3:41pm

In all fairness, the atheists who are most vocal are the ones who are able to express themselves well and have often read a great deal. They are the ones who are most concerned about the impact of religion and think most deeply about it and become well informed about faith and atheist arguments.  In contrast the Christians (usually) who want to debate may not have read anything including the bible. They defend their faith with their faith and then accuse atheists of being know-it-alls because we back our arguments. Knowledge is a choice. People on both sides of the debate have the same access to the internet and books. Therefore if you choose to enter a debate uninformed then you cannot complain if the people you are challenging have made more effort to read and think about the subject up for discussion.

  My husband is an atheist who had read nothing and is not interested in debate - therefore no-one will ever hear from him on the subject of religion.  I am often accused of thinking I am smart on Yahoo Answers but I don't. I am an amateur when it comes to science and say so. I am, however, well read with regards to psychological and philosophical issues connected to religion. I would like to discuss that and do not see why I should express myself less well than I am able?

Comment by Dale Headley on March 27, 2012 at 3:42pm

   You described me perfectly!

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on March 27, 2012 at 3:42pm

Shabaka, on page three you argued that perhaps Atheists in my culture were not having the same in yours because, and I quote, "I  can relate to the fact that European societies don't have a "historic" "cultural other" hegemony and that could play a role in how Atheist are viewed."

Then, realizing I was in Canada, you started arguing that hegemony existed - something I have never denied.  In point of fact, I replied on that same page (three) that "I'm in Canada and the 'cultural other' hegemony began as soon as Europeans started showing up."

Now, the point of whether or not there was hegemony was all about your assertion that Atheists wrapped themselves in intellectualism in response to being demeaned by the greater society.  The point I've been making all along, is that Atheists everywhere tend to wrap themselves in intellectualism, but as far as the developed world is concerned, they are NOT demeaned by the greater society except in the U.S.

You seem unable to follow the conversation we are having and have yet to offer a response as to why your original premise fails so miserably when applied to the Atheist population at large.  I'll respond to you when you do.

Comment by kris feenstra on March 27, 2012 at 3:51pm

Kris tell me how much of the Canadian economy do the indigenous people control?

I can't tell you how much of the Canadian economy any single ethnic group controls.  People with at least some aboriginal heritage represent less than five percent of the nation's population, so I can assume the answer would be a fairly small amount.

How many laws do they make and can enforce on the general population?

Depends on the individual. Leona Aglukkaq is the current Minister of Health for the federal government, so she has a considerable amount of influence.  

Can they make civic appeals with success without the European being involved?

Yes, circumstantially.  What is it that you're actually asking?  Is it about the autonomy of aboriginal peoples?

Comment by mason Lane on March 27, 2012 at 4:03pm

I think we have entered a age where Atheists are like the blacks were in the 60's. We're tired of even having to listen to the theist nonsense. I don't respect a person because they are sincere; Hitler and Mao were sincere. I have no respect for willful ignorance, mental laziness, and backward pride. I deplore those who still try to use Bronze age writings to subjugate women.I have contempt for those who do not see a credulous child's mind as sacrosanct. I think turning the other cheek just creates bullies. We are speaking out, we are marching, we are networking, we are demanding respect. I think the kindest thing we can offer the wilful theists is sarcasm. :) For thirty years I was on the "other fundamentalist side" and I can tell you that they did then and do now demonize anyone who won't bow to their totaliarian soon coming King. LMAOROTF Other than that, I just love everybody.

Comment by Shabaka Tecumseh on March 27, 2012 at 5:37pm

OK Heather than the U.S. is an exception to the rest of the world and of course you can speak for the rest of the world.  Gee freakin whiz..it was all an assumption.. Pls read again:  I said, I often wonder...

lejandro IMO you are close to my premise.  I often wonder if Atheist aren't considered the "niggers" of the monotheistic world.  In being so, they (we) take on the behavior of anyone who is demeaned by the greater society, we put a shield around ourselves and that would be "intellectualism."  And we use it in various ways for various reasons and it makes us appear arrogant or elitist to those who don't consider themselves "niggers."  

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