The Whole "The Universe Needed A Creator (God), But He Does Not Need A Creator" Argument.

I Mean, I Understand How A Christian Or Any Other Religious Believer Would Say

"Yes, The Universe Exists Because God Created It."

But What I Don't Get.

Is Why They Are Perfectly Fine.

Saying That The Universe Could Not Exist Without A Creator.

Yet That Creator.

CAN Exist.

Without Being Created By A Previous Creator.

Why Is It OKAY For God To Not Have A Creator.

But Yet, For It To Be Completely Outside The Realm Of Possibility.

For The Universe To Not Have A Creator?

For It To Simply Exist?

I Just Don't Get It.

I Mean, I Understand That They Need An Answer To The Question.

But When That Answer Leads To A Question That THEY Say You Shouldn't Be Asking.

Then The Answer Is Not An Answer At All.

"God Was Just There. He Has Always Been There."

That Just...Has No Logic Behind It.

And It Makes My Head Hurt Trying To Figure Out Why Anyone Would Think That That Is THE Answer Of How The Universe Came To Exist.

To Me "I Don't Know." Is A Much Better Answer Than "God".

Views: 303

Comment by Doug Reardon on February 12, 2012 at 3:36pm

Logic, reason, and rationality have nothing to do with religious belief!

Comment by Cecilia on February 12, 2012 at 4:05pm

Think of what a wonderful world it would be if more people were able to say:  "I Don't Know"  !!!

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on February 12, 2012 at 7:15pm

.....and the god they claim created the Universe just ahppens to be the god they believe in.

Comment by Logicallunatic on February 12, 2012 at 9:24pm

god is an unnecessary assumption... not to mention incoherent, unparsimonious and completely illogical. Occam's razor shaves god off with ease. 

Comment by Dennis donovan on February 12, 2012 at 11:02pm

these creatons don't use logic.  I try not to stress myself with their idiocy and trying to figure out their reason.  some people are just fucking stupid.  It's not entirely their fault, a majority of them were indoctrinated with this bull shit and anti science.  Most of them are too far gone, some are savable,   happy darwin day 

Comment by Tim on February 12, 2012 at 11:47pm

Something that I still have difficulty understanding is that there is no correlation between intelligence and skepticism. I know some extremely intelligent, super genius level, people who are also young-earth, creationist, 100% literal bible believing, holy spirit filled, born again christians.

Comment by Rob Klaers on February 13, 2012 at 2:08am

As I was told as a child and what's been said to me when I bring up such things to some theists is .."There are some things you just don't question..." .. In other words, "Nevermind the man behind the curtain," says the Great and Powerful Oz... 

Comment by Atheist Exile on February 13, 2012 at 10:02am

There's no evidence for God. But there's some pretty weird things which are suggestive that, just maybe, there is some sort of universal Intelligence or Creator.

One of these things is the fine-tuned-universe argument which points out the many physical factors that appear to be "dialed in" to facilitate life on Earth. The standard counter-argument is the anthropic principle, which states that: observations of the physical Universe must be compatible with the conscious life that observes it. It doesn't disprove the fine-tuned-universe argument but it does offer a simple alternative explanation to counter the notion that there's some creator God who has arranged the laws of nature to support human life on Earth.

Then there's the curious, suggestive, fact that modern physics includes information as a fundamental property of (subatomic) matter. The laws of physics, as we know them, were set within a fraction of a second after the Big Bang. Yet it would necessarily take hundreds of millions of years, probably a billion years or more, before any kind of intelligent life could possibly appear in the universe. Why would information be a fundamental property of matter if, for a billion years, there were no intelligence in the universe to make use of it? Cause and effect tells us that there's a reason for everything. What reason could there be for information as a fundamental property of matter, structured into the universe from the (virtual) beginning?

Information versus intelligence: one second versus a billion years. Doesn't it make more sense that intelligence preceded the Big Bang rather than made its appearance so late in the game? And what's to separate this intelligence from (a pantheistic) God?

As with the fine-tuned-universe, the arguments against the info/intel link are not conclusive. Whether the information in question deals with spin or speed or position or whatever, it's real information: data that reveals something about objective reality. You can paraphrase the anthropic principle and say that's just the way it is in our universe -- but that's less than a slam-dunk counter-argument.

I don't for a second, believe there's any merit to these arguments for a universal intelligence or creator. They may be suggestive of something supernatural but that's a far cry from the mountains of evidence for a natural, purely physical, universe.

Being an atheist doesn't mean doesn't mean one has disproved God. It only means that we don't believe in him. For many of us, we don't believe because of the preponderance of evidence that points away from God. But the ineffable mystery remains.

Comment by ichbindaswortistich on February 13, 2012 at 4:57pm

And yet, Atheist Exile, these points are mere musing. Given that information or intelligence preceded our universe, the question remains how this information or intelligence came into being. Thus, we are back at our starting point. It is more plausible that simple structures have evolved into more and more complicated structures than that each however complex structure require a more complex structure as its cause, for this inevitably leads to a vicious infinite regress. Also, so far as we know, there is no dimension of time in microcosm, and therefore no causality applies. We may not be able to comprehend this (yet), but it may be a hint that there need be no first cause in macrocosm.
We do not know for sure, of course, that there be no god(s) or whatever higher (intentional) power whatsoever. I am certain, though, that all of humanity’s existing religions worship supernatural beings invented by humanity itself.

Comment by Atheist Exile on February 13, 2012 at 10:35pm

I completely agree, ichbindaswortistich

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