Are We (U.S.) a Christian Nation?

Rick Perry says that he's not ashamed to admit that he's a Christian. But why would he be? If the nation is 75% or more Christian, why would there be any hesitation in admitting such a thing? Can you imagine a candidate saying that they are against child rape? Against genital mutilation? Coming out as pro-dog? Of course this isn't even discussion because it's the norm. But why the need to "admit" that you are a Christian?

Mr. Perry seems to be holding up his religion like he has the Holy Grail. Michelle Bachman does the same. Yet American society doesn't seem to react. The Republican Party doesn't even react. If the country is presumably 75% Christian and we have one running on that principle, shouldn't we see them leading the polls or at least seeing a bump when they stand on the Bible like a soap box? Instead, what we have is a philanderer with a long history of ethics violations and a Mormon leading the way within a party noted as being "Christian". It's as if there is a rejection of Christianity going on. I would argue that this is exactly the case.

The people that feel the need to note the US as a Christian nation are often deeply religious. You don't hear people that show up to church occasionally feeling the need to make this claim. They have insulated themselves inside of a sect of people whom speak of religion and Jesus as if he's involved in each and every move. For example, you might hear a new mother say, "I'm so tired but I know that where my strength ends, His begins." Does that means that they are infinitely energized or simply able to push through? If it's just pushing through, I wonder if people of other religions just fall over? Back to the point, most Americans, believers or not, do not relate daily life to a religion. People whom consider themselves "Strong Christians" make up less than 50% of the population. So when a person such as Rick Perry comes out and says that he's a strong Christian, he's only appealing to less than half of the country to start with. So are we a "Christian Nation" if that is true? Does being a "generally Christian" person get you into heaven or make us a Christian Nation?

On top of it, he appeals to the sensibilities of those that don't accept gays in daily life. He says that they shouldn't be in the military, Bachman calls it a disease. Currently only 43% of Americans think that Homosexuality is wrong. Poll Rick Perry specifically spoke out against gays openly serving in the military. Considering that 75% of the population is for gays openly serving, it would seem that we don't find that we agree with strict Christianity here either.

So how are we a Christian nation? We allow all religions under the First Amendment, yet this opposes the First Commandment. We defend gays publicly as a society which does not sit well with Romans and Leviticus. We accept all races publicly which would not sit well with Jesus as he was happy to call the Canaanite woman a dog. We are cool with getting drunk, sexual relations that harm no one else. The largess of us reject violence whereas Jesus over turned tables in the temple and begged of his people to sell their cloaks for a sword then promised to come back and slay most of the world. So how again is that we are Christian? It would seem that in the public square we are anything but Christian. Maybe those that are deeply religious would serve themselves well to recognize that we are largely a nation of Christians (by default, but that's another blog), but we don't think or act in accordance with a Bible. This is why you cannot get elected while standing on your Bible. We publicly reject your religion even if we were to privately join in with you. This is the most Christian thing about us. Matthew 6:1 "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

If you still think that we are a Christian Nation and would like to appeal to that nation, please lay out how we are a Christian Nation in the public square. Use national polls to support your point. Soon you'll see that in no way are we living in accordance with the Bible. Any principle such as don't steal or kill is found in nearly every society and did even at the writing of the Bible. So get specific or sit down because we don't want to hear it in the public square. I don't say this as an Atheist with contempt, I say it as an American Voter with contempt.

Tags: Christian Nation

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Comment by Gaytor on December 19, 2011 at 8:43am: To point something out, many are talking about the past and the founding. The blog really puts out the point that even currently when we have a country that is scary to watch at times. Even so, in the public square, we do not accept Christianity. Even as it's virtually required as a religion of the politicians, you could not run for national public office espousing "Christian Values" and win. Our laws on the national scale run contrary to Christian Values. We don't even have to quote mine. We can simply point out the national rejection of those that hold the Bible too close to their heart. Palin, Huckabee, Perry, Bachman.

Comment by John Kelly on December 19, 2011 at 9:02am: I think it is imperative to deal fairly with this issue. Was the USA a Christian nation? No. It definitely was not. However, it did intend to allow religion to play a social role and even a role in government. It is abundantly clear that it was to be a theist-deist nation.

In the original system, the constitution omitted any reference to religion because it was all over the freaking place. They wanted to balance this out by omitting it entirely. They did not want it eliminated from government, but rather diminished greatly. In order to do that, they needed to ensure no reference to God was made. However, every morning they prayed for God's guidance before they set to work on making sure not to mention him in the constitution they were drafting.

Farrands records are quite clear that congress, even though all but four of them thought prayer unnecessary instituted religious observance through prayer for guidance to be regularly practiced during the drafting of the constitution. The same group carried it over to future congressional sessions. Religious observance was a regular part of the fledgling government, however congress wasn't allowed to pass laws regarding religious preference. The nation was set up as a weird form of tolerant theism.

It is beyond me why the supreme court has misapplied laws concerning what congress could make laws about to all branches of government even at the state level. This is not an honest or accurate reading of the constitution. It makes interpretation a lot easier to make new amendments rather than misapply old ones to try to half-ass the job of taking care of modern issues. New amendments regarding what religious practice is tolerable by government need to be made, rather than misapplying old ones written specifically regarding what laws congress could pass. Right now, the secularization of government is being illegitimately implemented, when with some work some new amendments could make it actually legitimate instead of a stolen gain. It also would clarify a number of hazy issues that derive from this.

Comment by Arcus on December 19, 2011 at 9:43am: Bringing up the Treaty of Tripoli is futile unless one knows why that particular statement was included and what the interpretation is. It should also be noted that the Treaty is an agreement between two parties and regulate external relations, which is quite different from domestic law.

As for the declaration of independence, which is based on the assumption of Creator provided universal rights, and constitution, which concerns the separation of the first estate from the government, neither state that the US is not a Christian nation. Their only aim is to separate between Church and State; To ensure that European-style absolute monarchies would be impossible in the US. This is a far cry from establishing an areligious country. In fact, the US was an overwhelmingly Christian country then, and remains so to this day.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were... the general principles of Christianity... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.

~John Adams

Christianity to which the sword and the fagot are unknown – general tolerant Christianity is the law of the land!

~Daniel Webster (on American Christianity)

-----

(As a side note, Americans are not a nation in the strict sense of the term.)

Comment by Kevin Strong on December 19, 2011 at 10:05am: Arcus, that argument divorces the personal beliefs of a number of the authors and signatories from the context, as well as ignores the issues of recent history, such as the English civil war. The idea of Ann absolute monarchy is eliminated by the articles of the constitution independent of the church\state issue. The intent drawn directly from the quotes of several of the founders seems clear, that the role of religion be be marginalized in American government.

Comment by Kevin Strong on December 19, 2011 at 10:06am: An*, stupid auto correct.

Comment by Arcus on December 19, 2011 at 10:35am: @Kevin:

I wouldn't call the English civil war an issue of recent history at them time, seeing as a century had passed. :)

However, I do agree that the founding documents clearly separate Church and State, but that's not really the question posed, nor is it particularly well heeded no matter if the original framers though religion to be a private affair. Americans are clearly a Christian nation, the vast majority self-describing themselves as such, and Christian values reign supreme (even on this site..). There is also the shockingly strong interplay between religion and politics, and the unchecked and oft promoted influence of religion in the public sphere.

And I have even yet to mention how Washington made out with the Bible after being sworn in and ending with "So help me God".. ;)

Comment by John Kelly on December 19, 2011 at 10:46am: I think the question is more about whether or not american government is Christian or secular. But you need not deal with the bible being used for swearing in. Here is a link to what I was talking about earlier. These are the US Gov records. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field%28DOCID+@li...

Comment by Rob Klaers on December 19, 2011 at 11:00am: I stand corrected on the credit for that. Ty, Kevin. I had double checked prior to posting that. Looks like I'll have to triple check next time. So I'll be putting "ratified by the United States on June 10, 1797" to cover all bases next time. In any case though, the message remains the same.

Comment by John Kelly on December 19, 2011 at 11:03am: Correction. After re-examining the records I have discovered that the prayer was not officially implimented as a result of Franklin. It came later.

Although none of the objections to the prayer was on the basis of secularization either. If secularization was an important issue for congress, it would have been raised, yet it is surprisingly silent.

Comment by Kevin Strong on December 19, 2011 at 11:20am: arcus, near history, not recent but relevant. Certainly the framers were cognizant of the issue. The American people may be Christian in the majority but the establishment clause ought to prevent that from becoming an institution in politics. That is the distinction, for me between a Christian and secular nation.

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