Stijn Bruers
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A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle

Started this discussion. Last reply by Unseen yesterday. 98 Replies

Hi, as an atheist I have been watching several debates with William Lane Craig and others, and it started me thinking, especially about morality. At this moment I still doubt about the existence of…Continue

The moral hand, a complete and coherent ethic, applied to animal rights

Started this discussion. Last reply by Simon Paynton Apr 16, 2013. 193 Replies

The moral hand is a metaphor of five basic ethical principles, one for each finger, summarizing coherent ethic. It is the result of a ten year study of ethics and it captures my complete ethical…Continue

Tags: ethical, principles, justice, rights, animal

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Unseen replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Ethics is the aspect that relates to conformity There are graduate level courses in ethics and they are NOT about conforming to local standard, they are about discovering The Good. When someone buggers a little boy, we don't say "That…"
yesterday
TJ replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Again, I'd flip that and say ethics where you say morals. Ethics is the aspect that relates to conformity...does everyone around you walk around naked, or just cover reproductive openings, or also mammary openings, or also legs, face,…"
yesterday
Simon Paynton replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
""I can see several things going on.  From the ego:  Self-interest.  Expectations that things should be a certain way.  Perhaps issues of control."  - you could probably think of others: I can.  These goals are…"
Saturday
Simon Paynton replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"This whole thing about "dimensions" is not applicable, since the various qualities and categories we can apply to the phenomenon of seeking flourishing, the pressure to flourish, are not necessarily independent of each other.  It…"
Saturday
Unseen replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"I make the distinction that morality is basically a kind of conformity. "Don't do it because it's wrong and it's wrong because (The Bible, The Koran, The Dalai Lama, whatever) says so. One might lump in conforming to social mores…"
Saturday
Pope Beanie replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Good point, they can be strictly defined that way, and I didn't emphasize the difference. Ethics are more generally agreed upon in detail by organizations (and individuals) who have a transactional relationship, unlike morals that people tend…"
Saturday
TJ replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"I'd substitute the word ethics instead of morals as used above. Essentially, ethics is what is shaped by societal rules, etc, that you are taught/learn when shamed/punished shown examples of proper/improper behaviour, etc.  IE: What the…"
Friday
SteveInCO replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Ah, OK then.  I misunderstood where they were coming from. Still, I'd have to question their basis for making such a statement.  It could just be because our impressions of what is "Jesuslike" are largely formed by that…"
Friday
Pope Beanie replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Sure, but it allows one to spend a lot more time at the top, compared to what they need to spend time on at the bottom. And sometimes (e.g. by the likes of Bill Gates), that wealth can be distributed towards the success of the unwealthy, at that the…"
Thursday
Pope Beanie replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Aspects of morality I'm thinking of right now. The young explore boundaries, and discover when parents, crowds, and societies shame or forbid them from extreme behavior. The definition of extreme varies by culture, context, and moral evolution…"
Thursday
Simon Paynton replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Short term and sustainable would be any immediate pleasure that doesn't have long term harmful effects. "
Thursday
Simon Paynton replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"Similarly, a life of crime. "
Thursday
Simon Paynton replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"I agree, it's pointless to try and be too specific.  As for "long term and sustainable", there is the whole study of eudaimonic well being, which attempts to fill up that category with actual content. "
Thursday
TJ replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"A good point. Context is everything. :D"
Thursday
Simon Paynton replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
""The useful distinction to be made, perhaps on two dimensions, is between short term and long term, selfish and ethical."  - another useful dimension, to join those two, is "sustainable versus unsustainable".  So…"
Thursday
TJ replied to Stijn Bruers's discussion 'A quasi-objective morality without God: the anti-arbitrariness principle'
"True Dat. If we simply agree that "wants" can be "worthwhile" or "Not worthwhile" and if the want is to make positive changes it might be worthwhile to pursue, and visa versa. As everyone "wants" their own…"
Thursday

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Your Religious Status
Atheist
Why are you here?
discussions (on ethics...)
The religion you left
Catholic
Why you left your religion.
makes too much immoral claims and is unlikely to be true

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