Bakari, I featured your group ABAB, but could I encourage you to choose and upload a unique photo for it, instead of just the TA default image. Perhaps someone you think is an important historical figure.

 

Thanks,
Dallas - Volunteer Moderator

You posted your comment on your own page so I didn't catch it until now, sorry. I'll get busy on the group discussion.

Hi,

My signed :) copy of Atheism Advanced arrived today. Do you want to discuss it here or by email? Let me know which is best for you.

Do you want to take it one chapter at a time? I've read the introduction and will be finished with chapter one within two days.

Showing there is no difference between their god and the thousands of others people have believed in can be a good tactic, but I feel there is also room for pointing out the flaws in their particular religion.

Say they can be shown the Christian god doesn't exist, I don't think they're going to jump to one of the religions they always believed was mythical. If anything, they'll go to deism, then perhaps to atheism.

It might even be inevitable to talk about their particular one. They'll say 'Those are myths and mine is real because...'. It does no good to just respond with 'No, they're all the same'. Their reasons have to be shown to be bad reasons.

I'll have to see what else he has to say on that.

The other point I find hard to get onboard with is the idea that atheism has to mean more than it currently does. One of the arguments we hear is that so-and-so evil dictator had an atheist worldview. No, the person in question was an evil person who happened to be atheist. Atheism said nothing about his actions, and didn't help form his views in any way, just as his disblief in monsters under his bed had no impact.

I've heard it said to Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens in debates - 'you want to replace our Christian worldview with your own personal atheistic one' and 'you say: those atheists who did terrible things weren't following MY brand of atheism'.

A word already exists for the kind of worldview Eller wishes were more popular - 'humanism'. There's also 'rational', and many others. An anti-smoking campaign says nothing about their views on obesity, so a different choice of words, 'health conscious' for example, covers the smoking and obesity and other things a lot easier.

One of the things I like about being atheist is that I get to be more of an individual. I am against religion, but that's out of choice. I'm comfortable in trying to help people out of their delusions, but that's a choice too. My atheism didn't have to lead to that. I could have not believed but thought religion was mostly hamless and wished these 'new atheists' would shut up.

But again, I'll have to see what else he has to say on that. The list of quotes was fun to read, I'm glad they were included.

Hey,
I've ordered Atheism Advanced. Not sure when it'll get here as it's travelling across the pond, but I'll chat about the ideas in it with you if you like. From the info you've given so far, I'd agree that some ways of debating are better than others - i.e. "Which god are we talking about?" is better than "I don't believe in God."
I wouldn't agree that atheism is a lack of beliefs altogether. Just gods. You can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, for example - you just wouldn't be a very rational atheist. That's based on my understanding of atheism, but I'm open to hearing what he has to say.

Re: We didn't ask to come here. I think you make some interesting points as far as trying to change the argument. I've decided to stop responding to SerpentDove on your post. He is unable to reason or use logic and I don't want to give him the attention he wants. It was a fun ride though!

hey Bakari, welcome to TA! glad to have you with us.