Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on May 30, 2012 at 9:50am

@Saannwal - Not shocked - you should be not just shocked, but also ashamed. Women certainly face challenges, because the nature of the male and testosterone - they will always be targets for inadequate men. And that is because women fight against dim brained inadequate men with the help of intelligent, confident men.

You and your lot are inadequate, incompetent and fearful of women. You try and keep women down, you are dismissing 50% of the brains of your country. Truly dumb - and women are fighting back in all Muslim countries - and with the help of communication, we know what is going on in these countries. Certainly men rape in Australia, but they go to jail - what is the penalty in Muslim countries. The light is shining on these violent, misogynistic men - they can't hide anymore, that is the only reason the hatred of women, and what torture is done to them, is coming to light.

And I am glad you are on this site - stupid inadequate Muslims are reminding everybody about what an evil religion you belong to.

As usual - you will not answer any statements - typical.

Saanwal

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on May 30, 2012 at 10:21am

Female circumcision is entirely based on what the woman wants herself - 

What utter claptrap - female children, by their millions, have their clitoris cut off, their vagina sewn up - CHILDREN - no choice in the matter, dragged kicking and screaming. My heart bleeds for these children. There are many Muslim women who have been mutilated, and speak about it on TV in Australia - they write books about it - NOT THEIR CHOICE - and you have the audacity  saying it is the girls choice - unbelievable stupidity.

Your sister is lucky she is living in the UK -   how would she go in Iran or Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Somalia - in these countries they wear ha jib - or had her clitoris removed -  from the age of eight - once again - culture, religion who cares, it is brainwashing - then they go to other countries, and wonder why everybody looks at them. I just feel so sorry for them.

Your sister removed her hi jab because she wanted to belong to the English culture, that is also why you are there. It is a shame you bought your religion with you. I've never worn the hi jab - simply because I was born into a culture wear there was no indoctrination, and I didn't belong to a muslim family. How old was your sister when she started to wear this covering?

Your religion issues fatwas - the latest against Lady Ga Ga  - Death to Lady Ga Ga - what gives your religion the right to go to another country, then complain abut the culture.

How would I go in Iran or Iraq or and stand in the street and have a placard that said Muhammad is a tyrant, and had a very small penis, and Allah is codswallop, a figment of desert tribe mentality - and the Koran should be burned - what do you think would happen to me????

I can say anything I like about any leader, religious or political and there certainly wouldn't be death threats. On this site I talk about the criminality of the Pope and his pedophile and rapist priests - no death threats - there are cartoons against both pope and politicians - no death threats - the pope and his cohorts are constantly being exposed in newspapers around the world - no death threats against anybody - it is called democracy and truth against tyrants

It is a shame this can't happen with the muslim religion.

Comment by Saanwal Noor on May 30, 2012 at 11:02am

@ Suzanne Olson-Hyde Firstly, which statements am I not replying to? Secondly, I said that the religion says that women have a choice in circumcision; not that the people of all 'muslim' countries grant them that freedom of choice. And my sister doesn't live in England so no, she didn't remove her face veil to 'belong to the English culture'. 

And I should be ashamed? Really? Ashamed for what? The things people do in the name of religion even though they totally go against the religion? I've studied Islam in depth for almost 7 years know and know the difference between what's culture and what's religion.

People who say that Islam doesn't allow women to leave their houses alone at all; really? Is that Islam or peoples backwards culture? 

And the penalty for rape; you think jail is sufficient? I beg to differ, I believe these animals should at least be physically punished and subsequently caged; the actual law of Sharaih/ Islam. You people are basing your understanding of Islam on what people who don't even keep a beard (major sign of Islam) do. People that if you were to ask them why they do it, their answer would be statism, greed, materialism. 

Just as you people want non-atheists to study and learn about atheism and science properly without bias, why can't you do the same? Instead of basing your opinions on hearsay and what people do 'in the name of Islam' in 'muslim' countries, why not study it yourselves?

Lemme give you a simple example, you say that in Islam women can't study. Really? Muhammad clearly stated that seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every male AND FEMALE.

It is true that these so called muslim leaders of 'muslim' countries may be misogynistic, but that doesn't mean that the religion is. 

Comment by kOrsan on May 30, 2012 at 11:31am

That's cute, but like someone already said, every sect thinks the others are wrong and theirs is the true one. The hardcore "true" radical Muslims would call people like you a munafiq or a "moderate", to be degrading, of course. You'd call them extreme. You both call each others "not real muslims." Who's right? You both claim you understand the quran better than the other. That's a convenient dilemma, isn't it.

This behavior is typical to you, and known to us. It won't work here.

And the "The things people do in the name of religion even though they totally go against the religion?" is a) just a subset of the dilemma I just explained to you, and b) I addressed that in a previous post. It's always blaming the people, it's never the religions fault.

A child gets fucked by  the prophet of your religion... it was culture. A women gets her vagina mutilated, it's the people. Women can't leave their house, it's people's culture.

See a pattern here?

According to you, Islam has never ever done any evil, and Islam has no fault in the mindblowing atrocities across history. What a convenient excuse, for a religion that is supposedly the final one, being unable to be uniformly understood and applied. The only way it is always uniformly understood and applied, is in a bad way. Coincidence?

By the way, from what I can tell by looking at your avatar, a beard that short would be considered a disgrace amongst the radical muslims, you know, the guys that claim you're wrong, and vica versa.

Comment by Saanwal Noor on May 30, 2012 at 12:13pm

@KOrsan, "By my avatar, a beard so short...2 If it naturally doesn't grow faster, bushier, longer than this, what can I do about it? It's not as if I trim it or line it or shape it...

Comment by kOrsan on May 30, 2012 at 12:32pm

Saanwal - I'm not judging you or saying it's your fault. But those people probably would. I didn't mean to imply an insult there about your beard-length or anything, sorry.

Comment by Rob the Ridiculous on May 30, 2012 at 12:45pm

I think that a lot of people here do not understand that there are many different sects in Islam and that the difference between two Islamic cultures can be quite dramatic. In the EU for instance, many Turkish muslims have integrated quite well and their women tend to be better educated than their men. Also, a lot of these Turkish women have many a criticism on how their religion is used by others to subjugate women, and are not a victim of subjugation themselves.

On the other hand, there are plenty of women from Somalia that still are the victims of Female Genital Mutilation, just as boys are routinely mutilated within all muslim sects (which is NOT a completely different subject as some people pretend it is).

That being said, you can attack the Qur'an and the texts of the prophet, but the moment you say "Islam is this and that" you are talking about the subjective interpretation and experience of a human being and to group all of the muslims everywhere on one big heap is uncalled for and is detrimental to a good conversation.

As many people here have already shown, it is easier and more fruitful to criticize the Qur'an for what is written in it, than it is to lump every muslim together and proclaiming to know how or why somebody acts the way they do. Just my 2 cents.

@ Saanwal Noor, 

What happens if you mix fresh and salt water together? I'm assuming that you know that the Qur'an states that the two do not mix, what do you make of this inconsistency between what is written in the Qur'an and reality?

(I ask this question to almost any muslim that I talk too, if and when religion is discussed)

Comment by Saanwal Noor on May 30, 2012 at 1:02pm

@Rob the Ridiculous, I remember watching someone ask that same question on youtube... The answer is obvious, they mix together obviously. The Quran doesn't negate this fact.

The Quran merely mentions that there is a place in an ocean/river... where one part is sweet water and the other salty, a bit like described in the following link.

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-e.htm

No idea where Richard Dawkins got the idea that Muslims believe that saltwater and fresh water cannot mix.

 

Comment by Saanwal Noor on May 30, 2012 at 1:04pm

Just another example of you basing what 'Islam says' on hearsay. The man has an agenda so obviously he's going to distort what is said in the Quran.

Comment by Rob the Ridiculous on May 30, 2012 at 1:30pm

Well, since I do not claim to be an expert, I can very well be wrong on the subject. I am absolutely sure that some muslims interpret this verse as a literal truth, just like some muslims believe that the sun is literally smaller than the moon, as well as many other statements that are at odd with reality as we perceive it. 

What I was going for was to see that IF the Qur'an and reality as we perceive it  were at odds with one another, how you would choose between them and which reasoning would you use. To me, generally speaking this seems to be the major difference between me and many, maybe most theists.

I am inclined to think that this is partially due to the fact that I do not have to proclaim to have absolute truth, while a religion does.

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