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Comment by Freek on November 2, 2012 at 3:23am

There differential seems to be between 'could' and 'should'.

Could someone have done something to prevent a bad situation (rape, mugging, robbery,…)? Yes, most of the time they could (locking the door, matching apparel to the location and situation, etc…)

But should they have done that? And are they to blame if they didn't? They didn't invite the bad situation (who in their right mind would do that?), but they did make themselves an easier target (willingly or not).

Of course, the root problem is the existence of such predators, but we have to accept the fact that they do exist in the world we live in (only then we can start doing something about it).

People being harmed because they became a target for predators are not to blame (although actively provoking people into harming your is bordering on that), but not taking precautions to face the world we live in is playing with fate, and expecting no trouble while doing so is stupid.

Comment by Unseen on November 2, 2012 at 10:16am

But it is considered rape if a woman has consensual sex while intoxicated.  So how is that fair?  And, considering women have no regard for how the way they dress/present themselves as highly sexual beings affects the men around them, I'd be wary of claiming they have zero fault in the matter.

This is one of those areas where old school feminism wants the world to treat women like children. Everybody knows the effect of alcohol on higher judgment and libido. By holding the male more responsible than the female in those situations, the implication is that the male is the more responsible (more adult) party. I've even heard of cases where both parties were drunk and yet some women still feel that the male is the more responsible party. Most of the women in my life would resent the implications underneath such thinking and take responsibility for their own drinking habits, even if as a result something unfortunate were to happen. But of course, nothing excuses rape.

Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on November 2, 2012 at 11:27am


Comment by kOrsan on November 2, 2012 at 11:34am

Let's all just act like always only a single party is responsible for everything. Makes it all so much easier huh.

Comment by Arcus on November 2, 2012 at 11:45am

"Dress according to the conditions" and "Don't drink yourself senseless" is merely meant as good advice and does not imply a shifting of blame or rape apologetics. There needs to be a separation of is and ought; there ought not to be rapists out there, but there are, and they ought not target scantily clad or senselessly drunk women, but they do. There's nothing I can do about that, and I don't get why I should to be pilloried for pointing out that we are all responsible for our own safety.

Comment by Unseen on November 2, 2012 at 1:16pm

@Arcus I agree to a large extent. To some degree women behaving in a risky manner are taking their chances. I mean things like getting drunk among strangers or men who can't be counted on as trustworthy, dressing provocatively in certain circumstances, is risky behavior and risky behavior can have its consequences). I wouldn't walk around counting a fist full of high denomination bills in front of strangers, and I wouldn't leave my car unlocked overnight in a public place. None of that gives bad guys an excuse to mug me or steal my car, but it does reflect on my wisdom if I do risky things like that. If I'm mugged or my car is stolen, am I to blame to some degree? I'll leave that to speculation.

Comment by Unseen on November 2, 2012 at 1:19pm

BTW, let's note that even feminists and other concerned women continue to use the word "provocatively," which means "in a manner designed or intended to provoke." To provoke what, I guess, is the question.

Comment by Unseen on November 2, 2012 at 1:52pm

@Blaine I think even most women would have to agree that it's not to provoke interest in dating. I think women like dressing up sexy, they like looking sexy. And don't you dare lay the ridiculous notion at my door that what I was saying was women dress provocatively in order to get raped. The whole question is much more nuanced than that.

Comment by Arcus on November 2, 2012 at 2:33pm

Alcohol consumption and choice of attire is not the choice of another person. 

Comment by kOrsan on November 2, 2012 at 2:45pm

A provocatively dressed drunken women,  may cause one knuckle dragging ape to rape, or another gentlemen to protect her, and make sure she gets home safe.

Or cause another gentlemen to disregard her for what she is and go take care of something more important because he has shit to do. Rape and being a gentlemen aren't the only two options here You can't expect to get shitfaced and have someone protect you just because you're a woman, or whine around if something bad happens. Rapists are rapists and they'll always be a danger, but you could just just as well be run over by a bus if you stumble around on the road disoriented. People need to stop trying to push 100% of the blame on a single party. And Unseen is right, it's not hard to understand what he's trying to say.


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