Comment by Dustin on September 23, 2012 at 2:25pm

I don't accept that a 'victim' must always be 0% to blame for the actions of the perpetrator.  For instance, if I walked into a crowd of violent and protesting muslims with a sign that shows Mo with a bomb on his turbin and I get injured or killed - Who in their right minds would say that I was 0% to blame for the actions of the muslims.  Of course I was also to blame.  The fact of the matter is the muslims had an intolerance for that sort of a depiction of Mo and I knew well enough I was putting myself in danger.  

To say that I was killed or injured because someone killed me or injured me - to me - sounds ludicrous.  

Also I know this isn't at all the circumstance that most rapes occur in - such as a woman sexually flaunting herself in front of a man that she isn't familiar with and doesn't know his history or his personality and then claiming 'I've been raped' - But I can't for the life of me see how each and every time the 'victim' of the rape can be claimed to be 0% at fault for it.  

Comment by kris feenstra on September 23, 2012 at 4:29pm

Who in their right minds would say that I was 0% to blame for the actions of the muslims.

You are to blame for your actions, not theirs, unless you were exerting some form of body or mind control.  At the end of the incident, we may all look back and judge who bore what responsibility for the overall situation, but ultimately every individual bears responsibility for their own actions.

Were your actions advisable in that hypothetical scenario?  No, but that doesn't create justification for the violent response.

When it comes to rape, no matter how poorly a person behaves, can you think of a single, solitary reason that justifies or provokes you into raping them?  I honestly cannot, and if I could, I would hope that I could get help with whatever has gone off inside my head.  Perhaps the way someone behaves or dresses does make them more likely to be a target, but it simply does not explain why the rapist was motivated to rape in the first place.  That is on the perpetrator, not the victim.

Comment by Dustin on September 24, 2012 at 4:49pm

"Were your actions advisable in that hypothetical scenario?  No, but that doesn't create justification for the violent response."

I completely agree with this statement. It definitely doesn't create justification for the violent response but to me that is different than saying one is blameless of their own actions of which may not be advisable.  

I suppose I am a bit pessimistic in my view of humanity and specifically males.  Some people claim 'Oh how dare you assume men do not have the intelligence or willpower to control their own desires to rape a woman if only we taught them the women are real people too and they deserve respect'

To which I reply, 'Yeah but you're assuming these men actually give a shit about the feelings of someone else' and more so I believe part of the desire to rape is precisely to put someone in a position of which they have no control.  

I really don't think some men have the control that is needed.  And if they can't control themselves then would they seek professional help?  Probably not because who would want to go to a doctor and claim that they rape women for pleasure?  Most likely not many men do this...


Comment by anonymous on November 1, 2012 at 2:13pm

women get raped caused they were asking for it. nuff said

Comment by Emperor Milos on November 1, 2012 at 2:59pm

Feedest ye not, troll!

Comment by matt.clerke on November 1, 2012 at 6:54pm

PEOPLE get raped because someone raped them

There, I fixed it.

Also, archaeopteryx, you missed an entire category of rape: women-on-men. Just recently (within a year or two), a woman in Russia held a man against his will, force fed him viagra, and raped him repeatedly for three days.

Comment by archaeopteryx on November 1, 2012 at 7:07pm

I guess I didn't see that matt

Comment by Strega on November 1, 2012 at 8:59pm

Rape is not sex.  It is violence.  Ignoring both the external physical violence to force submission, or the blackmail violence to force submission, the act of penetration itself is violence.

When a man gets aroused, his penis increases in size and length from around 3" to around 6", and becomes hard.  When a woman gets aroused, her vagina increases in size and length from around 3" to 6", and becomes soft.  This means when consensual sex occurs, the parts fit. 

In the case of a rape, we are talking about jamming a 6" peg into a 3" cavity, repeatably.  That is not sex - it's violence.

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 1, 2012 at 9:18pm

I can't seem to get anyone's name right for the last 2 days ... trying again. ;-)

Hey Kris,

You have clearly delineated the bunny trail of reactionary thinking:

That's a bit like saying people who wear expensive clothes are asking to get mugged, or men who dress flamboyantly are partially at fault for getting fag bashed.  While it is true that certain manners of dress may make someone stand out as a target for certain crimes, I find it very difficult to suggest that this makes them in any way at fault for someone else's criminal activity.

When we start thinking otherwise then we start justifying anything. We have to accept your position as axiomatic, imo.

- kk

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 1, 2012 at 9:35pm

@matt.clerke,

Now that is a new one on me as well. The gravamen of the debate, imo, comes down to what if a man has sex with a woman but only does so because he is not aware of something about that woman or her motives? That's where it gets tricky. My conclusion? The guy had sex for his own reasons as well, prudent or not, stated or not. In the worst case scenario, its just two people using each other. We can reverse the sexes and the answer is the same, imo.

- kk

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