What Colleen said - kk
Jessica, I think I have to disagree with you here... Regardless of how intoxicated someone is, regardless of how someone is dressed, and regardless of how someone is acting, people need to use self discipline and just not rape them.
e.g. you see a wallet in an unlocked car. You can either not use self discipline, and STEAL the wallet, or you can use self discipline and not steal the wallet. Likewise, you see a georgous girl getting wasted at a party and she passes out on a bed; you can either not use self discipline and rape her, or not use self discipline and tuck her into the bed with a bottle of water to help with her inevitable hangover (or just leave her there, but I have more compassion than that). It's really not rocket surgery.
There differential seems to be between 'could' and 'should'.
Could someone have done something to prevent a bad situation (rape, mugging, robbery,…)? Yes, most of the time they could (locking the door, matching apparel to the location and situation, etc…)
But should they have done that? And are they to blame if they didn't? They didn't invite the bad situation (who in their right mind would do that?), but they did make themselves an easier target (willingly or not).
Of course, the root problem is the existence of such predators, but we have to accept the fact that they do exist in the world we live in (only then we can start doing something about it).
People being harmed because they became a target for predators are not to blame (although actively provoking people into harming your is bordering on that), but not taking precautions to face the world we live in is playing with fate, and expecting no trouble while doing so is stupid.
But it is considered rape if a woman has consensual sex while intoxicated. So how is that fair? And, considering women have no regard for how the way they dress/present themselves as highly sexual beings affects the men around them, I'd be wary of claiming they have zero fault in the matter.
This is one of those areas where old school feminism wants the world to treat women like children. Everybody knows the effect of alcohol on higher judgment and libido. By holding the male more responsible than the female in those situations, the implication is that the male is the more responsible (more adult) party. I've even heard of cases where both parties were drunk and yet some women still feel that the male is the more responsible party. Most of the women in my life would resent the implications underneath such thinking and take responsibility for their own drinking habits, even if as a result something unfortunate were to happen. But of course, nothing excuses rape.
Let's all just act like always only a single party is responsible for everything. Makes it all so much easier huh.
"Dress according to the conditions" and "Don't drink yourself senseless" is merely meant as good advice and does not imply a shifting of blame or rape apologetics. There needs to be a separation of is and ought; there ought not to be rapists out there, but there are, and they ought not target scantily clad or senselessly drunk women, but they do. There's nothing I can do about that, and I don't get why I should to be pilloried for pointing out that we are all responsible for our own safety.
@Arcus I agree to a large extent. To some degree women behaving in a risky manner are taking their chances. I mean things like getting drunk among strangers or men who can't be counted on as trustworthy, dressing provocatively in certain circumstances, is risky behavior and risky behavior can have its consequences). I wouldn't walk around counting a fist full of high denomination bills in front of strangers, and I wouldn't leave my car unlocked overnight in a public place. None of that gives bad guys an excuse to mug me or steal my car, but it does reflect on my wisdom if I do risky things like that. If I'm mugged or my car is stolen, am I to blame to some degree? I'll leave that to speculation.
BTW, let's note that even feminists and other concerned women continue to use the word "provocatively," which means "in a manner designed or intended to provoke." To provoke what, I guess, is the question.
@Blaine I think even most women would have to agree that it's not to provoke interest in dating. I think women like dressing up sexy, they like looking sexy. And don't you dare lay the ridiculous notion at my door that what I was saying was women dress provocatively in order to get raped. The whole question is much more nuanced than that.
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