Comment by Strega on November 1, 2012 at 9:51pm

Blaine, don't hold back, say what you really mean! :)

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 2, 2012 at 12:03am

Jessica,

Yea, but what about the real cop? :-)

I think it is perfectly okay to say that there are smart vs. not so smart plays in life. But that isn't the same question brought up here, imo. No matter how stupid I am, if I leave my house door unlocked and I am robbed I am 0% responsible. The burden for remedy must always fall on the perpetrator, the revoker of natural rights, not the reverse. When we start thinking like that it just gives license for anyone to rationalize anything, claiming that they can therefore do whatever they please to someone else. I could use some extreme examples from Nazi Germany, but you get the idea. This can't be allowed in a just society.

I know I'm probably going to get a lot of really negative responses from this post, but I don't care.  I think that a woman has to be responsible about how she carries herself or she's setting herself up for becoming a target for predators.

I would venture to assume that there's a chance a lot of guys on this forum would agree with me but are probably too shy to say so because they don't want a woman to feel offended or imply that it is her fault if she gets raped.

Well don't worry about me honey, I'm not shy. And I still don't think that a girl or woman should be held to account for the purpose of remedy for being raped.

I used to be this kind of woman and I have been raped several times. You'd think I would have learned the first time but it just forced me deeper into my addictions of drinking etc which caused me to find myself in the same circumstances as a way of life for many years. Looking back on it, if I had been more sensible about some of my choices I probably wouldn't have been raped. I was stupid for putting myself in situations with men that I barely knew being alone with them, and this was STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!

And some of your choices might have been ill-advised, just like leaving my door unlocked would be. But that is not the same thing as liability.

Men have a responsibility even greater, to be gentleman and to protect the women around them. Unfortunately this virtue is passing by the wayside like rotary phones, and the addictions of pornography are rampant and it is becoming an epidemic in this country.

I disagree with you here. True economic, legal and social liberation of women requires there be no strings attached. This kind of stuff is a hold-over from an unequal age. I would rephrase it to say we all have an obligation to look out for each other, regardless of sex or condition.

There's responsibility on both sides. The victim mentality portrayed in this sign seems correct until you really examine what it's implying. It's implying that men are evil.

Okay, I like that better.

I don't believe men are evil, they are just VERY weak when it comes to seeing beautiful women.

Agreed, and I'm not ashamed of it. Then again, I'm not ashamed of anything.

It's the way GOD made them ;)

Obviously, I do not agree with that. Its just the way I was born. ;-)

- kk

Comment by Colleen on November 2, 2012 at 1:40am

I do believe that it is on the individual, regardless of the sex of that individual, to carefully consider their own limitations and the potential consequences for their actions.  However, and this is a big however, I do not believe that any person deserves to be raped as a result of their actions or choices.  I fear that many people here are confusing these two things.

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 2, 2012 at 2:16am

What Colleen said  - kk

Comment by matt.clerke on November 2, 2012 at 2:40am

Jessica, I think I have to disagree with you here... Regardless of how intoxicated someone is, regardless of how someone is dressed, and regardless of how someone is acting, people need to use self discipline and just not rape them.

e.g. you see a wallet in an unlocked car. You can either not use self discipline, and STEAL the wallet, or you can use self discipline and not steal the wallet. Likewise, you see a georgous girl getting wasted at a party and she passes out on a bed; you can either not use self discipline and rape her, or not use self discipline and tuck her into the bed with a bottle of water to help with her inevitable hangover (or just leave her there, but I have more compassion than that). It's really not rocket surgery.

Comment by Freek on November 2, 2012 at 3:23am

There differential seems to be between 'could' and 'should'.

Could someone have done something to prevent a bad situation (rape, mugging, robbery,…)? Yes, most of the time they could (locking the door, matching apparel to the location and situation, etc…)

But should they have done that? And are they to blame if they didn't? They didn't invite the bad situation (who in their right mind would do that?), but they did make themselves an easier target (willingly or not).

Of course, the root problem is the existence of such predators, but we have to accept the fact that they do exist in the world we live in (only then we can start doing something about it).

People being harmed because they became a target for predators are not to blame (although actively provoking people into harming your is bordering on that), but not taking precautions to face the world we live in is playing with fate, and expecting no trouble while doing so is stupid.

Comment by Unseen on November 2, 2012 at 10:16am

But it is considered rape if a woman has consensual sex while intoxicated.  So how is that fair?  And, considering women have no regard for how the way they dress/present themselves as highly sexual beings affects the men around them, I'd be wary of claiming they have zero fault in the matter.

This is one of those areas where old school feminism wants the world to treat women like children. Everybody knows the effect of alcohol on higher judgment and libido. By holding the male more responsible than the female in those situations, the implication is that the male is the more responsible (more adult) party. I've even heard of cases where both parties were drunk and yet some women still feel that the male is the more responsible party. Most of the women in my life would resent the implications underneath such thinking and take responsibility for their own drinking habits, even if as a result something unfortunate were to happen. But of course, nothing excuses rape.

Comment by archaeopteryx on November 2, 2012 at 10:50am

I don't know how women think - NO man knows how women think, if he says he does, he's a liar.

But just guessing, I would suspect that some date rapes are the result of mixed messages - not saying that justifies them, just trying to explain the phenomena. There are some women who, through a poor self-concept, crave attention and dress provocatively to say, "Look at me!"

Some men, instead, get a different message, they hear, "I'm easy! I'm available!" and act accordingly, especially if their judgement is clouded by alcohol. But "No" should always remove all doubt.

Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on November 2, 2012 at 11:27am

RAmen!

Comment by kOrsan on November 2, 2012 at 11:34am

Let's all just act like always only a single party is responsible for everything. Makes it all so much easier huh.

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