Why do you think they want prayer in schools?

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 19, 2013 at 12:15am

Or better yet, if you're really serious, research all of the great philosophers, and cull from their wisdom, philosophies that you believe would relate to the issues that we face today, fully realizing that these will change with time (so that no one makes a rigid religion out of the concept), and create a class called, "Ethics and Mores," and teach that, leaving religion and it's accompanying supernaturality, to churches and other mystics?

Or, we could just go back to: "Be good to yourself, and to each other." It's really hard to improve on Springer, and we KNOW he actually said it, it's on video!

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 19, 2013 at 12:39am

"What sort of rituals and ceremony does the alternative offer?"

Why do you think we need rituals and ceremony?

"The thing with the Jesus character is that he lives forever and keeps improving. It needs to be an immortal role model."

So you're suggesting we knowingly lie to children? Why does it need to be an immortal role model? How much better, to show that the "Golden Rule" has been reinvented over and over so many times within the history of Human kind, that is an immortal concept, ingrained within us, and not coming from an "immortal" entity, which is a blatant lie? Do you honestly believe that no one will ever call you, as a teacher, on that? Are we really talking about brainwashing children? How does that differ from theists?

Why not just open the doors of our schools and say, "Come on in, Westboro Baptist Church, they're all yours!"

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 19, 2013 at 1:00am

"Its still crude but we've had this model for 2000 years."

And how many wars have been fought over this model? And how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives, including women burned as witches, have been lost because of this model?

A model based on a lie, that you would perpetuate with the world's children, just because you believe it contains a "moral"?

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 19, 2013 at 1:13am

There are thousands of "morals" out there, Confucious springs to mind, that do not contain lies.

Not being American, possibly you haven't heard of our story of George Washington and the cherry tree.

One thing I recall vividly from my text book in second grade, was the story of how the Father of America, George Washington, when just a child himself, received a new hatchet for his birthday. Anxious to try it out, little George surveyed the rows of blossoming cherry trees lining his father's long, winding driveway. Choosing one of these, he commenced to break up the set by using his hatchet and chopping it down. Obviously his father noticed its absence on the buggyride up the driveway to the house, after a long day at the office, located his young son, and asked him about it.

I think even those readers who may not be native to America are familiar with little George's famous reply, "Father, I cannot tell a lie - I did it with my little hatchet."

Once upon a time in America, in 1800, there was a "gentleman," and I use the term ever so loosely, named Weems. Reverend Mason Locke Weems, it seems, was not only a pastor but also, each in its turn, a sailor, a medical student, an accomplished player of the fiddle, author, and a traveling book salesman. During his pastoring days, which occurred sporadically whenever his book sales were down, he found himself teaching a Sunday School class in addition to his regular duties, predicting hellfire and damnation. He wanted his wide-eyed young class to learn the evil of telling lies, so he concocted the story of young Washington as a shining example of the reward for always being truthful. He taught his lesson of truthfulness by fabricating a lie and passing it on to innocent little minds as the truth, a lie so convincing, that generations later, that lie could still be found in reputable text books designed to educate other little children.

Later, he wrote a book about the life of Washington, likely just as authentic as his Sunday School story, but because, in the early 1800's, the public was hungry to learn about the father of their country (combined with the fact that there was little else but the Bible to take to the outhouse for reading material) that, authentic or not, it sold well. The story has since been deleted from all official public school books, but for many years, it was what all young children were taught.…

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 19, 2013 at 1:54am

The entire speech would have perfect, just as it was, no editing needed.

So we are all supposed to be empathic huh? Like who?

'the ability to put ourselves in anothers shoes" - How do you do that? Like who? Show me?

Like me, as you will see in a Private Message. Like all of us who aspire to be better. Like Jimmy Carter, who could easily have built a library and retired, but after a career as a politician, began and physically participated in building homes for the homeless - the list is endless.

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 19, 2013 at 2:29am

"In a world thats becoming increasingly Western - Im not sure that Confucious would apply.

"I dont know what the answer is archie."

Some time ago, and please don't ask me to find it now, it's nearly 2 AM here, and it's your day in Melbourne, I posted a comment, going back thousands of years, in which the "Golden Rule," thousands of years before Yeshua, if he ever existed - it needn't be only Confucious, one can easily demonstrate millennia of similar thought, implying that over time, we humans have discovered that we need certain rules, in order to live together successfully, and since Homo Sapiens has gone from a population of 2000 or less, on the South and East coasts of Africa, only a few thousand years ago, to a population we can barely feed, leaves me, at least, with the impression that despite the fact that humankind has been in perpetual warfare for almost as long, we must be doing something right, because here we are. I will most certainly admit that we can do better, but I can't agree that a person who may entirely be a fiction, whom no writer ever met, is empathy in disguise.

Do not take my lack of a response as indifference - my day ends as your own starts, and I must sleep now. Say what you like, and I will respond while you sleep, it's only fair.

Again, I can't stress too strongly, there is no anger here.

Comment by Gallup's Mirror on September 19, 2013 at 4:23am

Read on a note inside a fortune cookie, circa 1986:

"That wasn't chicken."

Comment by Simon Paynton on September 19, 2013 at 5:05am

I think the Dalai Lama is the one carrying the torch at the moment. 

There's also Karen Armstrong and the Charter for Compassion.  The Golden Rule isn't enough though.  It goes deeper than that. 

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 19, 2013 at 5:13am
Empathy is just Jesus in disguise - Jesus is a fable, certainly added onto, as a lot of stories are - legend and myth - keep on extrapolating to make it sound better. Same as Mother Theresa, another fable, added onto, made into a saint when she was just a miserly, unempathetic money making machine, who treated very sick human beings, appallingly. One can make, with time, anybody into a good human being, and there has been lots of re-writing concerning Jesus, depending which cult of xiantiy one is researching. In catholicism, god is jesus, jesus is holy ghost - all one and the same, same rules apply to all three. God from the xian book, is evil blahdeblah, therefore so is jesus - just have xians keep on spouting what a good man he was, how he loves everybody, all BS. People actually believe this rubbish, without doing any research on what jesus was actually up to, and what he actually said and did. Drop out the bad bits, extoll the good, anybody can re-write, over hundreds of years, to change the nature of anybody.

Empathy is too hard to teach - to whom - by whom - empathy is automatic to any human who is worthy of being called a human being. I always put myself into other peoples shoes, and I realise just how lucky I am, without having to go to any figment of man's imaginations.

The thing with secular benevolent societies, they have nothing to hide, no barrow to push, no cross or book to quote. Just humanism, in it's purest form.

A culture that too often tells us our principal goal in life is to be rich, thing young famous safe and entertained -

So pushing the barrow of Jesus would stop this - so what happens when one finds out the skullduggery and crime committed in these myriad of religions - when these people are entrenched in this 'wall of goodness' and still commit crimes - and then to find out parents and teachers have been lying to you - want disappointment - there it is.
Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 19, 2013 at 5:19am
The christian lobby, where they get chaplains into secular schools, and are paid by the government to do this - have stopped Ethics and Morals being taught in same secular schools. Are christians scared of the fact that one doesn't need to be a christian to have Ethics and Morals. Want unethical and immoral behavior, talk to a christian.


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