Comment by James Cox on September 7, 2013 at 7:20pm

Damn 1984 all over again!

Comment by Logicallunatic on September 7, 2013 at 10:26pm


"I forget who said it, but it goes, "When some mean motherfuckers are coming over the hill, you need meaner motherfuckers to go up and meet them."

That reminds me of a quote that went "in the interests of peace, I am against the peace movement".

Comment by Unseen on September 8, 2013 at 8:10am

So, you'd send some flower children to meet those mean motherfuckers. Hmmm

Comment by _Robert_ on September 8, 2013 at 9:48am

The mean motherfuckers didn't end the war in Viet Nam, the flower children did. You can not change a culture using war, unless you annihilate that culture. Short of that, you just deepen the hate and breed terrorists. When the "shock and awe" is over, and the body parts are buried it's all the same, just worse.

How many international fuck-ups, 9/11s, and dead young Americans will it take?

Comment by Warren on September 8, 2013 at 1:23pm

As long as there are war profiteers, bankers, politicians willing to go along with it, media that transmits the propaganda that "we have to do something" and "lets get the bad guys". Appealing to those who will buy the BS. The military is for our defense, not for empire building and policing the world.

It still mystifies me why use of chemical weapons in a civil war has anything to do with our security, they already have them and that won't change. Attacking them most likely will make it even more probable of some sort of revenge action here, and overall, will kill more people.

Comment by Unseen on September 8, 2013 at 1:55pm

@ RobertPiano

The mean motherfuckers didn't end the war in Viet Nam, the flower children did.

Yeah, but they forced essentially a defeat (which was okay with me: it was an unjust war) and they treated the returning soldiers like criminals, contributing to many suicides.

But let's imagine a real war situation where the other side is determined to defeat your side (let's be unspecific about which side you're on). You're seriously going to meet shock troops and tanks with flower children?

You're kidding, I hope.

Comment by Unseen on September 8, 2013 at 1:58pm

@Warren E Jappe

It still mystifies me why use of chemical weapons in a civil war has anything to do with our security...

Where do you live? It doesn't matter. Suppose some sarin gas that didn't get contained made its way to al qaeda terorists who then released it in your neighborhood?

I guess you'd still insist that your security wasn't involved, right?

Comment by Arcus on September 8, 2013 at 2:05pm

War makes strange bedfellows indeed. Then again, Finland was allied with Nazi Germany during WW2 and the US to Stalinist USSR. 

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 8, 2013 at 2:23pm

So, the idea then - and you may have to explain it to me, because I've never been able to think like a military person, Army Intelligence always seeming like an oxymoron to me - is to bomb the containers of sarin gas, releasing it onto the populace (depending on which way the wind is blowing), thereby saving them from having Assad release it on them -- am I close?

Comment by Unseen on September 8, 2013 at 3:14pm

@ Arcus - At least in the case of the US and USSR, there was a common enemy. I don't know what Finland was thinking.

@archie - While they can destroy the gas before it escapes with some extremely hot weapons (phosphorus bomb?), I think the goal is really to get Assad not to distribute the weapons to his troops right now.

Of course, later on there will be the problem, if Assad loses, of keeping them out of the hands of al qaeda and their ilk.

Many military experts feel that the "boots on the ground" approach of capturing and securing the weapons is the safest way, but I don't think there's any 100% sure way to make them safe either to those who try to catch them or those trying to keep anyone from catching them or to anyone downwind.

So, maybe you can see why non-proliferation is thought to be so important.


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