Comment by Heather Spoonheim on June 16, 2011 at 3:58pm

This is the primary trouble with 'Christian science' Bob - chalk full of lies like the rest of the religion.  You've got the pericope adulterae and a few other verses that are known forgeries, even by Christian theologians, Church father's who thought the truth was secondary to furthering the institution, Catholicism clinging to doctrines of a flat earth/Moses as author of the pentateuch/condoms spreading aids against solid evidence to the contrary.  One might expect that if this god were real and truth was a virtue then it wouldn't take a pack of lies to sell the story down the river.  Given all these forgeries, fallacies, and frauds - how can you for one second expect a rational person to believe there is actually a divine being existing behind all of this?

Comment by Jewelz on June 16, 2011 at 5:01pm

@BoB As an example of how a tree might petrify in an upright position quickly (since you didn't mention which fossil tree or forest you were referring to), the 1980 Mt St Helens eruption ripped thousands of trees out of the hillside and deposited them in spirit lake. They sank roots down and landed in volcanic ash sediment in the toxic water where they petrify in an upright position creating a future fossil forest.

 

I second Scarlette's advice. I'd love for you to make a post with all your questions. We would be happy to clear up any misunderstandings you have about evolution if you really are interested in learning.

Comment by Scarlette Blues on June 16, 2011 at 5:53pm

@Jewelz- Great link! "The bare logs sink upright to the bottom of the lake due to the higher density of the root end, and land on layers of volcanic ash sediment. The high mineral content of the water rapidly petrifies the logs in upright position as transplanted stumps. Spirit Lake is the first location where this process was observed; the process was predicted by scientists shortly before the 1980 eruption."

 

Science Prediction-1

Doomsday Prediction-0

*Science, ftw!* ^_^

Comment by Cleetus VonArbuckle on June 16, 2011 at 7:14pm

@BoB I am absolutely certain you know more about the 5000 year old translated writings of ancient nomad's oral reports better than me.  All I am saying is if you learned just a little bit about science you might not be so ignorant of the way biology works.  All things in nature work the same.  There are no special routes for Jesuses or other miracles.  Jesus had inherited trait.  Some came from mom and some came from dad (who ever that is) just like you and me and my dog.  In the same way, geology and fossilization work the same way now as they did then.  You do not need to create miracle to explain how things work. 

 

@Heather Spoonheim The best part about the millionaire and convict, Hovind, is how he and his wife scammed free health care from the Baptist charity because they didnt want to pay for insurance.  No wonder these guys are against single payer health care.  It'll ruin their scam.

Comment by William C. Walker on June 16, 2011 at 8:48pm

Bob, I have SEEN fossilized ferns which were 40 - 50 feet high when I was a field rep. for a Caterpillar Tractor Co. dealer, standing vertically in a rock formation. So what ? Do you seriously think this supports a biblical earth age of 6-8,000 years for Zeus sake ?

Comment by William C. Walker on June 16, 2011 at 11:00pm

A very easy way to illustrate evolution is to have the student attend a dog show.  All canines are descended from wolves & the result of selective breeding.

Comment by BoB on June 17, 2011 at 2:33pm

@Cleetus. I have one thing to say to you. This is a debate, not politics. Mudslinging shows cowardess and ignorance.

 

@ all. I major in science. Biology at that. You are all also classifying me as "Christian" If you look at my profile you would see I do not clasify myself as Christian so counting me as one and assuming I stand for/follow what past "Christians" have done and believe is unfair.

 

You also assume I don't believe in adaptation. I believe in adaptation not evolution. And why would we evolve if its to survive better in a new environment? Why wouldn't we just stay in the same spot? Why can humans survive in the areas that our "ancestors" live? Or why do our "ancestors" live where we do? And lastly...why are numerous scientists Christians?

 

If you must know why I believe in my Father without the bible. What convinced me of his reality and closeness to me was the experiences I went through. Not what the bible, or anyone else for that matter, told me.

Comment by William C. Walker on June 17, 2011 at 5:41pm

BoB. The term Father implies a son. Is the son / sun also a deity to you ?

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on June 17, 2011 at 6:28pm

Bob, if you have a major in biology and can't spot the fallacies in one of Kent Hovind's lectures then I need to assume you either bought that degree online or got it from a "Christian Science" program.  Assumed you were Christian from the Kent Hovind link because I've never met anyone with more than a grade 5 education who could fall for anything he says - other than fundamentalist Christians.  Your question about why there are still monkeys, fish, etc really revealed your scientific illiteracy - and I make sandwiches for a living.

Comment by BoB on June 18, 2011 at 1:27am

*sigh* One thing I hate hate hate hate about atheists are they're tendancy to assume things about Christians. I said I major in science. I did not say I have a degree in science. Yet.

You twisted what I was asking about us living where our supposed ancestors live. If we evolved to better survive a climate/habitat then why/how do our supposed ancestors survive where we live? What would be the point of us evolving to humans if we could survive as pigs? I use pigs as an example because that theory came right out of a biology textbook. And if you must know why the theory exists I can explain that too.

 

If you all actually fully read my posts you wouldn't have missed the one where I admitted I was wrong about my link to Kent Hovind. I didn't look into his background. I admitted being wrong and I no longer use his information in debates about evolution. You seem insistant on bringing this up. Really you just seem more intent on slamming me than actually focusing on the topic.

 

Now one thing that bugs the heck out of me, Cleetus, is I said Mary was essentially a surrogate mother. You then insist that Jesus inherited her genes. Now since you seem to know everything about biology you should know that a surrogate mother does not infact pass on her genes.

 

And yes, William I do believe the son (not the sun) is a deity. I mentioned that earlier when I said that Jesus is both fully God and fully man. Trinity, three in one.

 

kk assume I do accept we evolved from fish or pigs or whatever you want to claim. Then where did it start? What is the ultimate predecessor of all things? How did this come to be? You really believe it just happened? You know the odds of one protein, let alone a whole being, randomly assembling itself in a livable manner? its one in trillions. You have a better chance marking a coin in a room filled with coins and telling a blind man to pick one at random and him picking that coin.

 

I am well aware of the world fluctuating. I believe in pangaea. Also what you are talking about, gradually adapting, key word 'adapting', to a gradually changing environment. I believe in that. Again, finches proved that. What you are suggesting is that whole new species were created when the ocean turned to desert. I believe in microevolution. Not Macroevolution. I'd like to make sure people eventually get this.

 

Once someone can connect the animal in the desert to one in the ocean. Then we'll be making headway in evolutionary theory. For now. Microevolution is undeniable. Macro is still debatable.

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