This is the best way I've ever seen to teach someone evolution

Comment by BoB on June 16, 2011 at 2:28pm

@ Cleetus. I already gave my requirement of proof. If you can show me every step of evolution, provide the missing links as it were, then ya, I'd consider it. But as it is another problem occurs. You guys are talking all about survival of the fittest. If this is the case, and we are evolved from fish or pigs or monkeys then why do fish, pigs and monkeys still exist? Wouldn't they disappear as they fitter genes took over? How would they survive?

Also you are giving multiple scientific reasons for evolution, but forgetting there is proof for biblical occurences. And dating of fossils is innaccurate.

Comment by BoB on June 16, 2011 at 2:44pm

I say the comment oof inaccurate fossil dating because they have found numerous fossilized trees that are standing straight through 75 feet of layered rock. This would mean it would be standing for millions and millions of years. http://www.kent-hovind.com/evolution/evolution.htm (use ctrl+F)

 

They have also found a verticle complete fossil of a whale. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/whale.html

Comment by Jewelz on June 16, 2011 at 3:16pm

Polystrate is not a standard geological term. It is a creationist term. Regardless, "upright fossils are typically found in layers associated with an actively subsiding coastal plain or rift basin, or with the accumulation of volcanic material around a periodically erupting stratovolcano."

 

The "whale of a tale" story you linked says it all. "...the skeleton was not found in a vertical position, but was lying at an angle 50 to 40 degrees from horizontal. ...although at this angle, the whale skeleton lay parallel to the bedding of strata which at one time was the sea floor on which the dead whale fell after its death. ...It appears the creationists repeating this whale-of-a-tale ...either failed to check their facts or didn't want a good story to be ruined by the facts. ...What they claim to be God's truth is nothing more than an urban folktale used to validate personal religious beliefs."

Comment by Cleetus VonArbuckle on June 16, 2011 at 3:32pm
@BoB You require a level of proof for evolution that requires a 5 billion
year long play back of each day and even then you would say that it
probably wasn't happening on the other side of the planet or satan was playing a trick or the Jews made the movie because of the guilt for killing Jesus.  That is not a level of proof, that is a insolent child refusing to accept a parent's logic.  You are comparing overwhemling evidence for natural selection to one woman's third hand account of an unexplained pregnancy.  The fact that she got every one to believe it was the baby of a man in the sky instead of the more obvious product of illicit copulation is astounding.  Teenage girls the world over tell fascinating tales of their insemination.  You argue about the existence of a single fossil but believe an unwed mother was "inseminated" by a god?  What is god semen like?  Does the lord have chromosomes?  did jesus have half of Marys?  or was he the first clone? Seriously?  Think about it.  Where did Jesus' inherited traits come from?  Did his cells have an entirely different mechanism?  If so, how was he human?  This god leaves no physical evidence.  No supernatural gunk but evolution and natural selection is everywhere.
Comment by BoB on June 16, 2011 at 3:45pm

@ Jewelz. So you explained away most of the whale story. But you still didn't prove away the trees. the trees, if what you say happened, would have been destroyed, fallen over etc. not fossilized still standing up.

 

@ Cleetus. First, that isn't a child's refusal. It's logic. Proof you can't provide. You didn't even claim you had that proof. You just said it would take a long time to provide. Admit it. You can't find the proof I ask for.

Second,  I didn't know we were taking this into the new testament. I'm sorry, my bad. I thought we were talking about creation. Whose going off topic now? But if you must know Jesus was both fully man and fully God. Jesus was placed in Mary's womb, kind of like putting a fertialized egg into a suragate mother. Therefore Jesus may not have Mary's DNA but was also not a clone. Although Jesus would have shared the Jewish traits since he is told to be jewish throughout the bible and other historical accounts. Also it wasn't just Mary that claimed to be impregnated. If you recall Joseph was going to divorse her until he was told she was impregnated by God. He had no motivation to lie and say she didn't cheat on him. In fact he had more motivation to divorse her as her "cheating" would have brought humiliation and rejection for Joseph if he stayed with her. It was also claimed by Mary's cousin. It wasn't just a teenager trying to save her butt.

Comment by Heather Spoonheim on June 16, 2011 at 3:45pm

@Bob - you do realize that Kent Hovind is in prison now serving time for felony fraud, right?  Also that he never was a doctor of any sort?  Furthermore that he's a pathological liar who's taken Christians for literally hundreds of thousands of dollars?  I'm just wondering if you actually know who you are using as a source there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

Comment by Cleetus VonArbuckle on June 16, 2011 at 3:47pm

@ BoB   I apologize.  I actually just reread your comment to me and I did not realize how ignorant you were about biology.  You might want to go to the library and get a book about animal adaptations.  You might try a middle school general science text because it starts pretty basic.  It will explain that there are different habitats, diets, survival strategies, relationships, etc that make all species different.  I think you mistakenly believe there would be only one "best" species.  That sure would have made it easy for Noah, am I right?  See, most animals and plants do "specific" things.  This is what makes them a species.  Pigs, for example, do not compete with wolves.  They eat different things and live in different shelters.  There are different kinds of pigs because some are adapted to living in forests. Perhaps they are smaller allowing them to better survive living in underbrush.  Some have big ears that allow them to live in hot climates.  I hope this makes sense to you. 

You see, Scientists, and most educated people understand the earth is actually very old. Many changes have occurred in the last 5 billion years.  These changes are what favor certain adaptations in the genes of an organism.  This is very complicated and before I continue, I want you to first read about how the earth is made of very different places called ecosystems.

Comment by BoB on June 16, 2011 at 3:47pm
@ Heather. No I did not know that. Thank you very much for telling me that. I will no longer use that in my arguments :)
Comment by Scarlette Blues on June 16, 2011 at 3:50pm
@Bob- If you truly want to learn about evolution, there are plenty of us that will help you along in understanding. I suggest starting your own discussion though. It would be easier for people to help. This is only if you really want to understand evolution and not be a troll. :)
Comment by Heather Spoonheim on June 16, 2011 at 3:58pm
This is the primary trouble with 'Christian science' Bob - chalk full of lies like the rest of the religion.  You've got the pericope adulterae and a few other verses that are known forgeries, even by Christian theologians, Church father's who thought the truth was secondary to furthering the institution, Catholicism clinging to doctrines of a flat earth/Moses as author of the pentateuch/condoms spreading aids against solid evidence to the contrary.  One might expect that if this god were real and truth was a virtue then it wouldn't take a pack of lies to sell the story down the river.  Given all these forgeries, fallacies, and frauds - how can you for one second expect a rational person to believe there is actually a divine being existing behind all of this?

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