The existence of God is not subjective...

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 22, 2013 at 11:05pm

Philo, of Alexandria.

Comment by Strega on September 22, 2013 at 11:19pm
Comment by archaeopteryx on September 22, 2013 at 11:48pm

I was including Dr. Goodall --

Hey, I'm not letting anyone else pick on you, that's my job!

Comment by _Robert_ on September 23, 2013 at 12:10am

Practical Versions of the Golden Rule: Don't be an asshole, crime doesn't pay, what goes around comes around, karma is a bitch, could not have happened to a nicer guy, serves them right, etc...

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 23, 2013 at 4:14am
and all with trying to do the right thing, and not slag off at the biological father, when he is a hypocrite of the fort order.

Her choice of partner is not her children's problem - she chose the deadbeat hypocrite--

Absolutely right - hypocrisy is hard to detect - and it was my absolute judgment to pick the wrong bloke - absolutely - and the kids should NEVER have to pay for parents mistakes - no question - but when another human being - male or female - abuse trust, empathy, and the other partner shores up the lies, 'cause they don't want the children hurt, but to just get on with life - doesn't work - as in xianity - hypocrisy, lies, with the good people propping the whole situation up - this is what any hypocrite relies on - someone else to pick up the pieces - and in the case of any hypocritical biological parent - that is the poison, that is the damage done.

My kids found out by themselves, they got old enough to know that words are not actions - anyone can bluster, it is always actions that speak - liars, cheats are sometimes found out, sometimes it is just too late - and the damage has been done.

Its poison because it erodes empathy in the child, Running down a child's father to the child is also considered child abuse.

It doesn't erode empathy in a child - it shows children that truth is best - it teaches that just because words that come out of someone's mouth - does not make it true - it gives them better judgment to pick out liars, cheats and charlatans - that is the lesson - and it is a hard lesson - but it is truth - Naive is never good - trusting everybody just because they say you should - I learned the hard way - but the unforgiveable - my children did too. They are now more aware of the lies told to people, including children - and that is the good thing, and have made better parents for this hard lesson - don't lie to your children.

I just don't prop up liars any more - really easy.
Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 23, 2013 at 4:30am
Clever lad - he is a Brit - but am sooo happy he likes Australia and calls it home - if only there were more like him - Unapologetic, calling out he lies and hypocrisy of xianity - what could be better. Thanks Arch - need to listen to sanity and make me laugh at the same time - it is all good.
Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 23, 2013 at 9:21am
@Angela - Ah, that's the crunch - my ex didn't love his children, as so many thousands of supposedly civilized human beings do - when one loves a child - any child - one will do anything for them that is honest and true - they were just an appendage while it suited him - certainly horses for courses - but now I know what a good man is - only through experience - inadequate men abound, and certainly inadequate women abound - and how a person, either male or female - will protect a child, and not use them, for any reason.

It is disrespectful to children to cover inept, inadequate men - I will always protect my children from charlatans - and tell them truth - it is the covering up of lies that puts kids into a spin - not every biological parent loves their child - that is why so many organisations around the world are now turning to Gay couples to fill in - and make up for these miscreants. To tell a child, 'Oh, he means well", or "He does love you - when in fact, he doesn't - now that is disrespectful.
Comment by archaeopteryx on September 23, 2013 at 11:35am

If were going to use Christianity to teach empathy, we should first look at how well this has worked over the past couple of thousand years, wouldn't you think?

PART I:

Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)


 Ancient Pagans

  • As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
  • Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
  • Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
  • Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
  • Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
  • Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
    According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
  • In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
  • In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
  • The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
    [DO19-25]

 Mission

  • Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
  • Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
  • Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
  • 15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
  • 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
    Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 23, 2013 at 11:43am

Christian "Empathy" - PART II:

Crusades (1095-1291)

  • First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
  • Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
  • 9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
  • Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
  • after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
    Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
  • Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
  • Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
    (In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
  • The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
  • Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
  • Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
  • Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
  • Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]

    Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.


Comment by Strega on September 23, 2013 at 11:48am

Onward Christian Soldiers, eh?  Good thing nobody had invented weapons of mass destruction in those times.  However, it's a little difficult to pin those atrocities on today's Christians.  It would be a bit like blaming a German today for Nazi behaviour in WWII.  Are there not better examples, in terms of current inappropriate behaviour (other than priestly pedophiles, please)?

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