The existence of God is not subjective...

Comment by Belle Rose on September 21, 2013 at 4:57am
RE: I see all of those things as cultural problems ...

They are problems that are a direct result of religious doctrine and beliefs that teach them to be "pleasing to god."

As far as a guide: I am able to be my own guide with critical thinking. This is a better guide than any religion can produce. It is my hob to teach my son. If more parents taught critical thinking instead of fairytales their kids would be all the stronger for it. Religion is not needed to be a good person. Letting go of it actually makes you better. You start to understand the implications that you are a spec of dust here for a short time. But every day counts. You learn you have the strength within you to make decisions for you, and you are able to overcome life's difficulties. Religion on the other hand breeds dependency, "sin" mentality, and teaches that you are nothing without god. It oppresses women and abuses children, and corrupts mental faculties in a way that I don't have enough spece or time to tell you about. The only guide we need is reality, and our minds. It will allow us to be the most help we can be to others, and not because we feel obligated by (insert god of your choice here).
Comment by Belle Rose on September 21, 2013 at 5:00am
*job (not hob)
*space (not spece)
My computer is broken, can't edit. These corrections will have to suffice.
Comment by Belle Rose on September 21, 2013 at 5:11am
Angela I can't help but wonder if you are being brainwashed. You sound exactly like Simon. I've never wanted to say anything against Simon because he's been my friend since I joined TA. But I'm just wondering if these ideas are really what YOU believe? If so, great. More power to you. But remember: critical thinking....don't blindly believe something without further investigation. (Something I've also admittedly done on several occasions, lol)
Comment by Belle Rose on September 21, 2013 at 5:32am
Angela: RE How is it done?
Whats the method?

Empathy isn't really the ultimate goal. Focusing EXCLUSIVELY on empathy is also short sighted and somewhat paralyzing. First and foremost is coming to terms with your own mortality. If you still hold even a shread of belief in an afterlife your vision will be blurred. Next is an understanding of your place in the universe. Insignificant, and yet part of it, which allows you to look at the night sk in awe of the mysteries, and the wonders. You then realize when you hold a baby, or watch your family, that we are an evolved species....and when you read about science and evolution it broadens your knowledge, and INCREASES it's vastness, and the more you fall in love with life. NOT clouded by dogma.....but life as it REALLY is before you. You then want others to see what you see. You want all of humanity to experience the same freedoms you do. Only then does it become clear how short sighted religion short changes the mind. Everyone is different. There's no magic formula. But I promise you your journey is not about empathy. It's about reality, and learning to live IN reality. Focus on that, and you'll gain all the empathy you need.
Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 21, 2013 at 8:16am
Benevolent Society - Secular, working with the Uniting Church - christian - just brilliant.

And this is happening all over the world.Tortured, malnourished, babies not bathed for six months, burnt with cigarettes, smashed against walls, are taken from parents, who sometimes end up in jail, and adopted by Gay couples, male and female . Truly inspiring.

About the Ricky Gervais stale quote - the people I speak of in third world countries aren't lucky enough to be able to see any quotes from any Atheist - no computers, no internet, never heard the word Atheist - just go to church on a Sunday, maybe, to hear the word of god. Motivational Posters - if only that were possible. These quotes are for mainly western countries. The enlightened, educated, access to information people in these third world countries can at least have a choice. Of course, as Archie mentioned, onyango makagutu, an inspiration- educated, articulate, just not enough of him in uptown Kenya. He is just one on this site - who knows about third world countries, and the devastation caused through religion coupled with no education - as is happening here, in Australia, a supposed enlightened country.

@onyango - how many people would have access to a computer, the internet, differing points of view, debate, in your lovely country? How many would see or be interested in an Atheist site - or quotes?

Education is always the key - take away poverty, for women to be able to feed their children - they may see other things to help, instead of hoping jesus will help them.

Women pulling together, to get water tanks, to get microbamk loans - community spirit - as in any western society, take away community, take away concern - put in dumbing down techniques, limit education except for the rich, capitalism, greed, money at anybodies expense - that is when things have and do fall apart.
Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 21, 2013 at 8:37am
@Angela - You don't explain empathy to a child - you show them - I don't think there is too much of anything to teach a baby before 12 months old, maybe your kids were a lot brighter than mine - mine were as dumb as a rock - but from the age of around two, they recognised pain in someone else, and tried to comfort them - even a dog will do that. Give money to the poor or someone who is busking, play with gladness kids with Ceribal Palsy, never exclude anyone, and tell the bully to fuck off. My kids had some Down Syndrome kids at their school, nobody was excluded, and if anyone dared to look at one of these kids disparagingly,the result was not a good look. You show them with actions- that's how all kids learn anything, Everyone grows into a better human being - pretty simple really.
Comment by archaeopteryx on September 21, 2013 at 10:35am

@Belle - I'm making no effort whatsoever to humiliate you - what possible reason would I have? I just know how you believed when you first came on the board, and what you've made clear your beliefs are now. I've also seen you use your own experiences to explain your viewpoint to others who indicate they have religious delusions. Then Angela begins advocating teaching "WWJD" to children, preaching Jesus in school systems and in third-world countries to give them strength to endure their hardships, and it just seemed to me that those were issues you would normally jump all over, as well as try to help out a fellow woman, who, if one follows her posts on several discussions, has definitely had some issues in her life, with which I was sure you could identify.

Further, I believe a woman can talk to another woman better than a man can, and it was clearly obvious I wasn't convincing her of anything, and I couldn't help wondering why you so completely distanced yourself from something that normally would have been right up your alley.

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 21, 2013 at 10:38am

@Belle - RE: "Empathy isn't really the ultimate goal." - that entire paragraph was very profound!

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 21, 2013 at 10:42am

Suzanne, as always, you rock!

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 21, 2013 at 10:54am

@Angla - RE:


So - when Mike said ....

"ALL children, and especially girls with their fathers (and by extension other father figures), use seduction to get their way."

I don't know if that particular statement was, for him, hypothetical, but I can tell you from personal experience (though it will likely have you calling me a pedophile and "Rock Spider" as well), having raised four of them, that little girls will flirt their heads off to get what they want. For me, that's not hypothetical, it's fact.

I once had all four of them, wanting to go to a particular movie, get together and actually rehearse an act, in which all four fell to their knees simultaneously, clasped their hands in prayer, and in unison, plaintively begged, "Please!!?" My oldest was quite the playwright and director.


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