The existence of God is not subjective...

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 20, 2013 at 7:24pm

I'm not confusing you at all - first you advocated teaching miracles and mysticism in the classroom, then teaching "What Would Jesus Do" to children, then more miracles and mysticism to members of Third-World countries, because they need superstition to get through the day - if it walks like a platypus --

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 20, 2013 at 8:28pm

RE: "So what is it that you dont like then, is it that Im not a carbon copy of you? " - oh, good grief no, if I knew of an I.Q. bank where you could go to borrow a few dozen points, then possibly, but as it is, no.

I'll repeat: "you advocated teaching miracles and mysticism in the classroom, then teaching "What Would Jesus Do" to children, then more miracles and mysticism to members of Third-World countries, because they need superstition to get through the day" - now I don't have the time, inclination, nor interest to go back through your posts to extract all of the statements you've made, in order to back up my statement, but you appear to have not much else to do, so I suggest you do that and refresh your memory.

And what's with the renewed attack on Mike Long - he was stating a hypothetical case, just as I was posting a news article several months ago, about a girl who was abused as a child, and apparently offended a lady who had been terribly abused. First, I had no idea she'd been abused, second, I wasn't advocating a position at all, just as Mike wasn't, merely reporting a story from the news. The end result was, that our current Belle Rose, who at that time was either Sarah or Jessica, I forget which, along with her pet puppy, Simon Paynton, went up one side of me and down the other, much like you and your pet puppy, Paynton, are now doing to Mike. Quite the coincidence --

It's equally coincidental that you seem to have knowledge of correctional institution terminology, while our friend, Jessica/Sarah/Belle Rose, whose earlier thoughts nearly echo your current ones, also worked for a correctional institution. You two should really get together and chat, you'd find that you have a lot in common.

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 20, 2013 at 11:18pm

Mike made it clear to you that he was only responding to Unseen's comment, that you'll find on page 13 - here is Unseen's comment:

Reply by Unseen on Wednesday

Pedophilia is a difficult subject for people to discuss logically. And here I AM talking about true pedophiles, not some guy guilty of statutory rape with a pubescent teen of 15 or 17. That is a different issue, and the guy who's guilty of that may not (and probably is not) attracted to prepubescent children. Pubescent teens can meet the normal standards of physical attractiveness that we apply to adults. However, as a society we believe that people of that age aren't ready to have sex with full adults.

Let's assume that pedophiles are born not made. In that regard, if that's true, they resemble homosexuals. 

But pedophiles want sexual contact with children, which is different from homosexuality. It's not just that we want to protect children, it's that we need to and have a duty to do so. Since in some cases the children give consent or even may initiate sexual contact, this includes protecting them from themselves because at that age they really are clueless what they are getting into. 

In that pedophiles can do damage to others if they let themselves go, it is like alcoholism. If someone is an alcoholic who gets into the system through some infractions, but gets their drinking under control, we let them get out of the system. We don't have them registering in their community as alcoholics for the rest of their lives.

Pedophilia has certain aspects of an OCD, because pedophiles certainly obsess about sex with children and feel a compulsion to act out, which they sometimes cannot resist. While, no doubt, some pedophiles qualify as predatory creepozoids, some are just sad cases with a compulsion they are powerless to resist.

So, the challenge is for the community to approach pedophilia in a non-hysterical, logical way that both maximizes the protection of children and yet isn't draconian in terms of cosequences for the offender.

Let's also bear in mind what I heard Bill Maher say once (and I'm sorry, but I have totally forgotten the context). I paraphrase, but I know the gist is right: "When they come to take your rights away, they'll say they're doing it to protect the children."

So, let's hear some alternative ways to treat pedophiles that doesn't amount to branding a big letter "P" on their foreheads.

How about this: In exchange for not molesting children, we (the Government) will keep your condition secret and we'll give you unfettered access to high-resolution, computer-generated pedophilic images and videos.

This would not reoffend children, which would be the reason for not giving them access to real kiddie porn, and it would help both prevent child sexual victimization and murder, because a certain small percentage of pedophiles end up murdering the children they molest in an attempt to keep their crime from becoming public.

Anyone got a better idea? The Ludovico Technique?

There may have been earlier ones, but it has taken me the better part of an hour to locate that one, and as I'm sure you often hear your therapist say, I'm sorry, our time is up.

Comment by onyango makagutu on September 21, 2013 at 3:14am

Angela, so you think religion is useful to those living in the third world and that they need an alternative. No we don't need. People need to be freed from this madness of some middle Eastern god created by men in exile several eons ago and solve the current problems facing us.

Education is it's own reward. We don't need coloured glasses to look at reality. And I have met quite a number of atheists and they are seem to me to be doing very well for themselves. So cut the crap and tell me why you think people in the developing countries need religion.

Comment by onyango makagutu on September 21, 2013 at 3:49am

In your response to archy where he mentioned me, you said he only knows one person and that his knowledge can not be true of the group. It is in that light that I told you there are several atheists I know here who are doing good for themselves and need no religion to hang on.

Ah, so you can't talk about empathy without mentioning Jesus? that is if I get you correctly? 

Comment by onyango makagutu on September 21, 2013 at 4:14am

So Angela, are you implying the Chinese or Japanese who is not into this Jesus business can't have empathy or can't know it? Or in which way is Jesus and empathy very similar or same? 

As to whether increasing secularism has created a hole, I don't know, there is a bigger hole where I live created by religion. It follows from us against them mentality that runs deep in religious texts, which over time has made it hard for those around me to rise above religious bigotry and ignorance and so something to improve their lot.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 21, 2013 at 8:16am
Benevolent Society - Secular, working with the Uniting Church - christian - just brilliant.

http://www.benevolent.org.au/

http://www.burnside.org.au/content/MR%2520Same%2520sex%2520adoption...

And this is happening all over the world.Tortured, malnourished, babies not bathed for six months, burnt with cigarettes, smashed against walls, are taken from parents, who sometimes end up in jail, and adopted by Gay couples, male and female . Truly inspiring.

About the Ricky Gervais stale quote - the people I speak of in third world countries aren't lucky enough to be able to see any quotes from any Atheist - no computers, no internet, never heard the word Atheist - just go to church on a Sunday, maybe, to hear the word of god. Motivational Posters - if only that were possible. These quotes are for mainly western countries. The enlightened, educated, access to information people in these third world countries can at least have a choice. Of course, as Archie mentioned, onyango makagutu, an inspiration- educated, articulate, just not enough of him in uptown Kenya. He is just one on this site - who knows about third world countries, and the devastation caused through religion coupled with no education - as is happening here, in Australia, a supposed enlightened country.

@onyango - how many people would have access to a computer, the internet, differing points of view, debate, in your lovely country? How many would see or be interested in an Atheist site - or quotes?

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/country/voice/tags/kenya/kenya_ru...

Education is always the key - take away poverty, for women to be able to feed their children - they may see other things to help, instead of hoping jesus will help them.

Women pulling together, to get water tanks, to get microbamk loans - community spirit - as in any western society, take away community, take away concern - put in dumbing down techniques, limit education except for the rich, capitalism, greed, money at anybodies expense - that is when things have and do fall apart.
Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on September 21, 2013 at 8:37am
@Angela - You don't explain empathy to a child - you show them - I don't think there is too much of anything to teach a baby before 12 months old, maybe your kids were a lot brighter than mine - mine were as dumb as a rock - but from the age of around two, they recognised pain in someone else, and tried to comfort them - even a dog will do that. Give money to the poor or someone who is busking, play with gladness kids with Ceribal Palsy, never exclude anyone, and tell the bully to fuck off. My kids had some Down Syndrome kids at their school, nobody was excluded, and if anyone dared to look at one of these kids disparagingly,the result was not a good look. You show them with actions- that's how all kids learn anything, Everyone grows into a better human being - pretty simple really.
Comment by archaeopteryx on September 21, 2013 at 10:35am

@Belle - I'm making no effort whatsoever to humiliate you - what possible reason would I have? I just know how you believed when you first came on the board, and what you've made clear your beliefs are now. I've also seen you use your own experiences to explain your viewpoint to others who indicate they have religious delusions. Then Angela begins advocating teaching "WWJD" to children, preaching Jesus in school systems and in third-world countries to give them strength to endure their hardships, and it just seemed to me that those were issues you would normally jump all over, as well as try to help out a fellow woman, who, if one follows her posts on several discussions, has definitely had some issues in her life, with which I was sure you could identify.

Further, I believe a woman can talk to another woman better than a man can, and it was clearly obvious I wasn't convincing her of anything, and I couldn't help wondering why you so completely distanced yourself from something that normally would have been right up your alley.

Comment by archaeopteryx on September 21, 2013 at 10:38am

@Belle - RE: "Empathy isn't really the ultimate goal." - that entire paragraph was very profound!

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