Red Jacket, 1805

Very intriguing argument against organized religion.

Comment by Morgan Matthew on March 18, 2012 at 12:04am

Comment by Mo Trauen on March 18, 2012 at 11:13am

Love it.  It shows how anyone not indoctrinated can see that religion is a crock.

Comment by archaeopteryx on March 18, 2012 at 12:51pm

I read a story once - most likely ficticious, or at least an urban legend, but it posed an interesting question, nevertheless.

It seems a Christian missionary was visiting with remote Inuit (aka, Eskimo) people in the Arctic, and had explained to this particular man that if one believed in Jesus, one would would go to heaven, while those who didn't, would go to hell.

The Inuit asked, "What of all of the people who have never heard of your Jesus? Are they all going to hell?'

The missionary explained, "No, of course not. God wants you to have a choice. God is a merciful God, he would never send anyone to hell who'd never heard of Jesus."

The Inuit replied, "So why did you tell me?"

pax vobiscum,
archaeopteryx
www.in-His-own-image.com

Comment by SteveInCO on March 18, 2012 at 12:57pm

Hmmm... and there are other theologians who maintain that the instant Christ either died or was resurrected, everyone on earth--including those who had never heard of Christ--was in peril.  In other words, they would maintain that missionary Archaeopteryx quotes should have said yes.  Hence the insane drive to do missionary work absolutely everywhere, because anyone who hasn't heard the message will go to hell no matter what (since everyone has original sin).

Unfortunately from what I know, the position I just described makes more theological "sense" than what Archaeopteryx's missionary says.  (It's funny that the more dickish option usually wins.)

Comment by Dan on March 18, 2012 at 4:50pm

If there really were one true god, wouldn't we expect world religions to slowly converge upon the truth regrading that god? However, this is clearly not happening...

Comment by Michael on March 18, 2012 at 6:43pm

Simple logic from Red Jacket. I would even call this "Native American wisdom" if it weren't so often asked by humans from all cultures with questioning brains. 

Comment by Ed on March 18, 2012 at 10:00pm

@Dan

I think organized religions have yet to understand the use of reason and logic in correctly perceiving our environment.

Martin Luther

The damned whore, Reason

The following quotes concerning the evil of human reason are from the father of Christian Protestantism, Martin Luther:

Die verfluchte Huhre, Vernunft. (The damned whore, Reason).

Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets.
Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148

Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not -- struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.

Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.

There is on earth among all dangers no more dangerous thing than a richly endowed and adroit reason... Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed.
Martin Luther, quoted by Walter Kaufmann, The Faith of a Heretic, (Garden City, NY, Doubleday, 1963), p. 75

Reason should be destroyed in all Christians.

Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason.

To be a Christian, you must "pluck out the eye of reason."

People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth.
Martin Luther, "Works," Volume 22, c. 1543

We know, on the authority of Moses, that longer than six thousand years the world did not exist.
Martin Luther, "Lectures on Genesis"

All our experience with history should teach us, when we look back, how badly human wisdom is betrayed when it relies on itself.


 

Comment by archaeopteryx on March 18, 2012 at 10:07pm

Shame he didn't tell us how he really felt --

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