it is not racism or "islamophobic" to point out cruelty and injustice...

the world seems to be afraid of "offending" the "immigrant" and while words like islamophobic are becoming more and more common.. we allow cruelity and injustice to go on in the name of "multiculturalism"

Views: 401

Comment by Nessrriinn on November 5, 2012 at 8:08pm

It's the word Islamophobia that causes the confusion. It is intentionally used disingenuously for that very reason. It is a discussion tool in itself. A concept of similar import to blasphemy.

speaking of Pat Condell.. It's easy to see the racism and nationalism of EDL. It's not like they are subtle about it. But to throw that racism and nationalism in with criticism of Islam and collectively call it Islamophobia means that criticism is guilty by association. It means validating the idea that they are all three equal elements of a broader injustice... and yes some liberals would use this very thing to defend directly or indirectly the pratices of sharia, (this is where my bashing comes in )

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticising Islam as casually, shallowly, childishly, offensively, maturely, respectfully or as amiably and nuanced as we do any other ideology. And the same goes for its figureheads.

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 5, 2012 at 8:14pm

Hey Pope Paul -

I think your unwitting tact here is conversion of an ethical issue to an ideological one, which isn't necessary. Ness is trying to bring awareness of the problem out because one cannot talk about solutions in a safe context until everyone in the room understands what the presenting issue is. So, Ness is pointing out that, independent of dogma or belief, it is simply wrong to hold a rifle to a woman's head and force her on her knees and to assume a humiliating position - or whatever they are doing there. I don't need to be a democrat or republican to understand that, and frankly, every republican and democrat I know would be disgusted with that picture.

Now, once we all agree that treating a human being like this is disgusting, then, and only then, can we talk about Islam. One step at a time. I'd be happy to have that discussion with you if you if you like. I have a website dedicated to the very solutions you ask about which includes thousands of pages of original material on law and economics.

- kk

Comment by Nessrriinn on November 5, 2012 at 8:20pm

thank you Kir Komrik :)

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 5, 2012 at 8:22pm

Hi Ness,

I didn't say "they are all the same" and i wasn't bashing all liberals..

I was born in the United States and live in California so I can say this. The west is a culture of hypocrisy. We talk about great things in the abstract and run like scared chickens from reality. So, even if you were saying they're all the same, which you weren't, it wouldn't be far from the truth. And, Pope Paul, Republicans do it too.

... there is a distinct difference between relevant critism , racism and nationalism... and some would put all three under the same umbrella called islamophobia.. if we can't differentiate them from eachother, relevant critism of islam will be lost.

Exactly, and there is a stark difference between abuse, pure and simple, and these other things I'd rather see go away; i.e. religion, racism and nationalism. It is funny you mention nationalism because it is the second most influential form of public myth in human culture, next to religion.

- kk

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 5, 2012 at 8:25pm

@Pope Paul - sorry, the link to that site is There is a search featuer there.

- kk

Comment by Pope Beanie on November 5, 2012 at 8:38pm

Thanks, Kir, I understand better now. I read too much into the picture and caption, with the culture of fear's "No Mosque at Ground Zero" motto buzzing in my head.

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 5, 2012 at 8:51pm

@Pope Paul -

Well, I think the conversation about solutions is a good one. Some of us enjoy that conversation while others focus on other things. In my opinion, the best solution to these problems is deconversion and global rule of law, both of which are controversial. But this is a fascinating subject and I'd love to hear anyone else's ideas.

- kk

Comment by Pope Beanie on November 5, 2012 at 10:16pm

Wait, so this is a real picture? I thought it was shopped, for purpose of illustration. You guys really got me goin', now!

Comment by Kir Komrik on November 5, 2012 at 11:49pm

Hey Pope Paul,

It is an Amensty International picture used to illustrate the reality in some Sunni and Shia countries, and how the rest of the world is - or is not - responding to it.

The depiction is one characteristic of the punishments women suffer for "violating" hadiths and other Islamic customs. In Iran, for example, a 14 year old girl had an afffair with a 50 something married man with a family and children. He was venerated in Qom as a hero and she got to hang by the neck from a crane, literally. He was called a defender of Islam and she was called a whore.

Amnesty is trying to point out -illustrate - this dichotomy.

- kk

Comment by Pope Beanie on November 6, 2012 at 12:33am

You're making sense again, Kir, thank you!

Yeah, the posters are good. There are more if you click on each.

So I misconstrued the intention of the post because of the caption blaming multiculturalism, (which is simplistic). My bad.


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