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Comment by SteveInCO on July 17, 2016 at 8:47pm

I guess I fall into a different bucket.

Some gods cannot possibly exist because their existence would entail a logical contradiction.  The simplest case of this is the omnipotent god.  That's self contradictory, as readily demonstrated by the old question about whether god could make a rock too heavy for him to be able to lift.

So I find it easy to say THAT kind of god does.  Not.  Exist.

Now some of those old pagan gods, on the other hand....

Comment by _Robert_ on July 17, 2016 at 9:02pm

He could make a rock too heavy for him to be able to lift at time t1, but be able to lift it at time t2 and so on through infinity.

Comment by _Robert_ on July 17, 2016 at 9:05pm

and of course if the time between t1 and t2 is infinitely small...well you know the drill...

Comment by SteveInCO on July 18, 2016 at 8:41am

He could make a rock too heavy for him to be able to lift at time t1

If he cannot lift it at time 11, he's not omnipotent.  "Only omnipotent some of the time" isn't the description.  Besides which, at 12, he's unable to create a rock he cannot lift, which means, he's not omnipotent there either.

If the people who'd made the whole thing up had settled for him being pluripotent (more potent than anything else but not inifinitely so) they could have sidestepped the whole mess.  For that matter the trinity was an attempt to reconcile a bunch of mutually-contradictory doctrines that had evolved in the first couple of centuries after the crucifixion.

Comment by matt.clerke on July 18, 2016 at 6:25pm

This leaves off the people who don't believe because they've never heard of the concept of god. Would that be a rational or irrational position?

What about if that person is then exposed to the concept of god by door knocking mormons, and rejects their claims because their claims sound like fiction? Rational, or irrational?

Now some of those old pagan gods, on the other hand....

Well, I don't see any ice giants around, do you?

Comment by _Robert_ on July 18, 2016 at 10:34pm

 he cannot lift it at time 11, he's not omnipotent.  "Only omnipotent some of the time" isn't the description.  Besides which, at 12, he's unable to create a rock he cannot lift, which means, he's not omnipotent there either

I was using calculus to show as the time difference between T1 and T2  approaches -infinity that it is possible to do what seems impossible if you have forever to do it.

Comment by Belle Rose on July 19, 2016 at 12:11am
Lol!!
Comment by SteveInCO on July 19, 2016 at 1:13am

Robert,

You misspelled "abusing"

Comment by TJ on July 19, 2016 at 1:07pm

God in the old testament was more like a person, a person with flaws.

He's not perfect, not omnipotent, not omniscient, etc.

He's defeated by iron chariots, didn't know that Adam would want a woman, or even an animal...and doesn't try to play matchmaker until Adam rejects god's failed attempts to solve the problem.

He makes Adam stupid and naked...and when Adam essentially asks for a mate, he offers assorted critters.

That means god never had a plan for Adam other than to be an immortal dumb naked guy for god to delight in, and make all the angels bow down to.

AFTER making Eve, THEN he wants the two of them to be fruitful and multiply...and be two immortal dumb naked baby machines.

He then puts a tree with fruit he says they can't eat there...

...and when they eat it, the "Knowledge of right and wrong" most includes knowing that they were naked, and that being naked was wrong.   

He made them that way of course, which, if nakedness WAS immoral, begs the question as to if god was moral.

And so forth.

Only the Catholic Church added all the extra layers of "Perfect" we see today as part of who god was.

They didn't worry about impossibilities or logical conflicts, because they were not that smart, and, knew the flocks were dumb as door nails to boot.

So, ALL the attributes were suddenly "Perfect".

He was not just strong, he was omnipotent.  He was not just smart, he was omniscient.  

He COULD make a rock so heavy he could not pick it up, but he could also pick it up even if it were so heavy he could not pick it up.

Not only was his mom a virgin AFTER his birth, but so was HER MOM, and so forth.

He had a plan for everyone before they were even born...but everyone could do whatever they wanted, even if against his plan.

And so forth.

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on July 19, 2016 at 1:44pm

He COULD make a rock so heavy he could not pick it up, but he could also pick it up even if it were so heavy he could not pick it up.

That is a much better definition of omnipotence.

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