Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on April 5, 2010 at 7:48pm

Awesomeness. I'm reading it now. Thanks.

Permalink Reply by Atheist Exile on April 5, 2010 at 11:37pm

It seems that altruism is nature's correlate to morality. Both depend on experience and empathy -- "I know what hurts me, so I know what hurts you." This, it seems to me, suggests a certain level of self awareness.

I would seem that self awareness is the key component of intelligence (not that this is a new or original idea). If other animals are self aware: what distinguishes our obvious advantage of mental sophistication over all other animals?

Permalink Reply by T A A on April 7, 2010 at 3:33am

Meh, adoption is an anthropomorphism. Even male lions will raise non genetic progeny, it was falsely thought for many years that males lions killed all non genetic progeny, simply not true. Animals all over the animal kingdom raise other's babies. It comes in all shades for sure, and chimps may indeed be permissive over other parental lingering smell markers, but they're communal living animals. It is NORMAL that they raise others.

Science has long grown out of the patriarchal view that males do not accept others' kids, it was another example of christianity influencing science. I'm glad we grew out of that one.

Permalink Reply by NoSacredCow on April 6, 2010 at 8:16am

"Primates also have a much more difficult time in controlling their emotions, too, which may also inhibit social cohesion and progress."

I know quite a number of humans that display this behaviour. Take for example the "tea party". What may outwardly be displayed as group cooperation is simply shared anger and like water are flowing to the lowest point.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on April 6, 2010 at 10:02am

Yes, but it is not even real anger, is it? It's just feigned moral outrage and false anger over lies and misinformation.

Of course, I'm not at all suggesting that humans are good at controlling their emotions, but compared to apes as a species, it seems that the control we can excert over them has benefitted us as a species.

Permalink Reply by T A A on April 7, 2010 at 3:35am

I'd say we're probably the worst at controlling our emotions, just think of compulsive procreation and compulsive greed. They permeate humanity throughout. Also the fear of death and the search for eternal life, either through religion or technologies, same pattern of fear of death.

We just pretend we aren't guided by our emotions, cuz it makes us feel superior to them...

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on April 7, 2010 at 9:44am

I agree with you to an extent, but I also think that we are better at controling our emotional impulses than some other species. I control my emotions all the time. If I didn't, I'd probably be in jail for murder, cuz there are a lot of people in this world I'd like to drop off a sky scraper. : )

Permalink Reply by T A A on April 7, 2010 at 12:33pm

LOL!

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on April 6, 2010 at 10:04am

According to Frans de Waal, this is the case with chimps but not so with bonobos, who seem to be "mellower" and more empathic.

They actually bring that up in this documentary, and say that bonobos are much more cooperative than chimps.

This has nothing to do with ape geniuses, but everyone should read Philip Zimbardo's The Lucifer Effect,,,

I'll add it to my list. Read also The Lucifer Principle by Howard Bloom.

Permalink Reply by Jaume on April 6, 2010 at 11:15am

Are apes "smarter" than children? Victoria Horner once devised an experiment showing that apes seem to think when childen tend to imitate blindly. The implications are mind-boggling.



See also this: the imitative behaviour of children and chimpanzees

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on April 6, 2010 at 11:48am

This first clip is from the documentary. As they explained, I believe it has something to do with the expectation of learning a process or methodology that humans possess, but chimps don't. I think the kids saw that it didn't help them get the candy, but that the instructions were to be followed anyhow.

And that is exactly how humans behave (sorry to say)! If it wasn't, we wouldn't have tradition or culture or religion, because in almost all these aspects, we blindly follow the instructions laid down for us by previous generations. Look at marriage ceremonies, prayer, and all the silly superstitions we possess. Isn't it the same thing as what is going on in these videos?

Like they said, poking the stick in the top of the clear box was pointless, but they did it anyway. That sums up so much of human existence, does it not? We do all kinds of pointless things.

Of course, it's not all bad either, as she says in the second video, as that is how we learn language and other useful skills.

Perhaps one of the tricks in life is learning what is worth copying and what is not.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on April 6, 2010 at 12:22pm

All great points, Adriana. I suspect some adults would play the game, because many are no so astute.

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