Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kirsten on June 15, 2011 at 5:15pm

I'm so happy I found this group. 

 

   A good portion of people have trouble thinking more than a few months into the future unless they are reminded very, very often. And diet is something that currently has huge effects across the board: shipping, packaging, health (human and animal), land use, water pollution, and plenty of others. 

 

   It seems to me like a majority of people either assume that there is plenty of time to fix the issues we have (tell that to the species already on the brink of extinction, or already extinct), that humanity has a right to keep doing it because we have in the past, or that it's a non-issue because animals aren't as smart as we are and are meant to be used by us, just like all other resources. This demonstrates a clear lack of education on the matter of ecosystems and biodiversity, as well as the definition of sentience. 

 

   Just like with atheism and rationality, if someone doesn't talk about this we can't expect it to get better. The reasons to switch our diets (where possible) aren't just hippy-dippy mumbo-jumbo based on how cute little baby chickens are. We need to speak out and educate.

 

  So yes, I am speaking out (politely, but firmly). I care about the planet. I care about life. I want all people in the future to come into a world where respect is the norm, not exploitation. I want responsibility to be important, not desire. 

Permalink Reply by Dogly on June 18, 2011 at 3:54pm

It seems many agree that it is OK to object when something another person does can be shown do cause personal injury to us. Defending the interests of another, especially one from a scorned group like other animals, is what is considered rude and fanatic.
If I say that eating meat raises my taxes because of government subsidies, that's ok. If I say eating meat means hurting and killing my friends, and that I want to protect them from your predation, that is unacceptable. I am a vegan Nazi, or fellow atheist say veganism is a religion and that is not worth talking to us. Compassion and empathy is NOT a religion. What about that "Being Good Without God!" stuff?
Defending the weak against bullies is a good thing to do. Preventing unnecessary suffering is an ethical thing to do. Eating meat is dumb, mean, and totally unnecessary. OK carnists, wipe the blood from your mouths and deny, lie, and excuse. Talk about the lions, the cavemen, the subsistence hunter. Tell me that no-one loves animals more than you. And no-one loves children more than a pedophile. When you tell me you "LOVE" animals, I ask, "With catsup,or gravy?"

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 22, 2013 at 7:21pm

Depends on the animal, actually. 

And the way it's cooked, of course. 

Permalink Reply by JD Rasco on July 13, 2011 at 6:22pm

You are like jesus...but real. You are right, if people are murdering my animal friends I need to take a stand!

Permalink Reply by Dogly on August 15, 2011 at 11:43pm

I have noticed that some vegans only feel justified in speaking out about those aspects of meat eating that affect them personally, like pollution.  Why is it less acceptable to speak for the other animals who are tortured and killed, than our own interests?  Whatever serious and terrible environmental effects meat eating has on the planet, most vegans who I know became vegan because of compassion for the other animals.  It is also MY business if someone is hurting and killing my friends and distant relatives.

Permalink Reply by Dogly on April 2, 2012 at 5:36pm

It is none of our business!  Just as it was none of our business when witches were being burned at the stake in this country, and when black people were held in chains, when women were not allowed to vote, and when bear baiting was legal.  Wouldn't America be a better place if nosy, pushy, self-righteous people just backed down and shut their mouths.

Permalink Reply by Philippe Orlando on May 19, 2013 at 1:37pm

Of course it's our and my business what other people eat. Absolutely. Most people choose to eat food that create a huge amount of pollution in various ways. These people live on the same planet I live and are polluting everbody's space. I guess I'm a Nazi too?  My freedom stops where somebody's else freedom starts. I believe that a lifestyle that throws out a huge amoung of Co2, methane in the atmosphere and plastic in the ocean is not ethical. It is my business to tell anybody engaged in such lifestyle to stop since they are polluting my planet too. 

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 22, 2013 at 7:28pm

My dog is my kid. 

Seriously. I'd kill a cop that was threatening him. No doubt. No hesitation. 

But that's MY dog. I've eaten dog in other nations. I realize that my attachment to him is not the same as what others would feel towards him.  

Just as your attachment to a chicken or duck or cow isn't what I feel that particular animal. 

I have a small homestead. I have poultry for eggs.  One of my drakes went from pet status to food status because he was becoming increasingly rapey and then attacked me. I couldn't rehome him. He could hurt someone for real.. (They are Muscovies. When I say 'attacked' I'm not kidding. They have hooked bills and clawed feet. They can do some damage.)  He was a danger to my girls (the egg layers) and a danger to humans. Nature has a way of ringing the dinner bell. 

So when you say "I love animals, so I won't eat them." or "I love animals, so YOU shouldn't eat them." I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and pat you on the head. 

I think the reason why that's not used very often in arguments is because it's too easy to dismiss. 

No one cares how you feel. Your 'feelings' are not a legitimate argument in most cases. 

People are assholes. That's a fact of life. 

Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on May 23, 2013 at 2:29am

 

But chickens and cows are man made animals. What will happen to them if they aren't eaten - should we just let them run free and wild. That would be cruel.

Or would we eat all of the food animals first and then become vegetarian once they've all gone?

How would it work?

 

 

Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on May 23, 2013 at 1:53pm

 

I love horses. I've owned a few.

Would I eat one? -

Probably -

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 23, 2013 at 3:01pm

I would eat horse. The French love it. 

Would I eat the carcass of a retired service animal? Yes. If the alternative was that the carcass would go to waste. 

Now, would I butcher a retired service animal? No. I would prefer to see it 'retired' if that's an option. 

That's because I have an attachment to service animals. It's a personal feeling. It's not something I would try to mandate into law, simply because I'm not in a position to make a financial decision for someone else. It could be that it's more humane for whatever reason to put an ailing animal out of pain or because there aren't enough resources to care for it properly. I'm not in charge of the alternatives, so I don't get to make that call. 

That's a standard I apply to people, too. I live in a state that has legal assisted suicide. I'm a full body donor after my death. 

I would rather have a shorter, happier, more useful life than to die shitting myself and useless. 

Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on May 23, 2013 at 2:40am

 

"Should we let our meat eating family and friends off-the-hook, because we fear being RUDE by suggesting that their choice to eat meat is dangerously impacting the environment of OUR planet? How do you side on this question?"

 

I swear I'd have a serious go at anyone trying to lecture me about not eating meat ...

Why not fight for the ethical slaughter of these animals - I think thats a more worthwhile cause than telling people what to eat.

 

 

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