Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kirsten on June 15, 2011 at 5:15pm

I'm so happy I found this group. 

 

   A good portion of people have trouble thinking more than a few months into the future unless they are reminded very, very often. And diet is something that currently has huge effects across the board: shipping, packaging, health (human and animal), land use, water pollution, and plenty of others. 

 

   It seems to me like a majority of people either assume that there is plenty of time to fix the issues we have (tell that to the species already on the brink of extinction, or already extinct), that humanity has a right to keep doing it because we have in the past, or that it's a non-issue because animals aren't as smart as we are and are meant to be used by us, just like all other resources. This demonstrates a clear lack of education on the matter of ecosystems and biodiversity, as well as the definition of sentience. 

 

   Just like with atheism and rationality, if someone doesn't talk about this we can't expect it to get better. The reasons to switch our diets (where possible) aren't just hippy-dippy mumbo-jumbo based on how cute little baby chickens are. We need to speak out and educate.

 

  So yes, I am speaking out (politely, but firmly). I care about the planet. I care about life. I want all people in the future to come into a world where respect is the norm, not exploitation. I want responsibility to be important, not desire. 

Permalink Reply by Dogly on June 18, 2011 at 3:54pm

It seems many agree that it is OK to object when something another person does can be shown do cause personal injury to us. Defending the interests of another, especially one from a scorned group like other animals, is what is considered rude and fanatic.
If I say that eating meat raises my taxes because of government subsidies, that's ok. If I say eating meat means hurting and killing my friends, and that I want to protect them from your predation, that is unacceptable. I am a vegan Nazi, or fellow atheist say veganism is a religion and that is not worth talking to us. Compassion and empathy is NOT a religion. What about that "Being Good Without God!" stuff?
Defending the weak against bullies is a good thing to do. Preventing unnecessary suffering is an ethical thing to do. Eating meat is dumb, mean, and totally unnecessary. OK carnists, wipe the blood from your mouths and deny, lie, and excuse. Talk about the lions, the cavemen, the subsistence hunter. Tell me that no-one loves animals more than you. And no-one loves children more than a pedophile. When you tell me you "LOVE" animals, I ask, "With catsup,or gravy?"

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! yesterday

Depends on the animal, actually. 

And the way it's cooked, of course. 

Permalink Reply by JD Rasco on July 13, 2011 at 6:22pm

You are like jesus...but real. You are right, if people are murdering my animal friends I need to take a stand!

Permalink Reply by Dogly on August 15, 2011 at 11:43pm

I have noticed that some vegans only feel justified in speaking out about those aspects of meat eating that affect them personally, like pollution.  Why is it less acceptable to speak for the other animals who are tortured and killed, than our own interests?  Whatever serious and terrible environmental effects meat eating has on the planet, most vegans who I know became vegan because of compassion for the other animals.  It is also MY business if someone is hurting and killing my friends and distant relatives.

Permalink Reply by Dogly on April 2, 2012 at 5:36pm

It is none of our business!  Just as it was none of our business when witches were being burned at the stake in this country, and when black people were held in chains, when women were not allowed to vote, and when bear baiting was legal.  Wouldn't America be a better place if nosy, pushy, self-righteous people just backed down and shut their mouths.

Permalink Reply by Philippe Orlando on Sunday

Of course it's our and my business what other people eat. Absolutely. Most people choose to eat food that create a huge amount of pollution in various ways. These people live on the same planet I live and are polluting everbody's space. I guess I'm a Nazi too?  My freedom stops where somebody's else freedom starts. I believe that a lifestyle that throws out a huge amoung of Co2, methane in the atmosphere and plastic in the ocean is not ethical. It is my business to tell anybody engaged in such lifestyle to stop since they are polluting my planet too. 

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! yesterday

My dog is my kid. 

Seriously. I'd kill a cop that was threatening him. No doubt. No hesitation. 

But that's MY dog. I've eaten dog in other nations. I realize that my attachment to him is not the same as what others would feel towards him.  

Just as your attachment to a chicken or duck or cow isn't what I feel that particular animal. 

I have a small homestead. I have poultry for eggs.  One of my drakes went from pet status to food status because he was becoming increasingly rapey and then attacked me. I couldn't rehome him. He could hurt someone for real.. (They are Muscovies. When I say 'attacked' I'm not kidding. They have hooked bills and clawed feet. They can do some damage.)  He was a danger to my girls (the egg layers) and a danger to humans. Nature has a way of ringing the dinner bell. 

So when you say "I love animals, so I won't eat them." or "I love animals, so YOU shouldn't eat them." I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and pat you on the head. 

I think the reason why that's not used very often in arguments is because it's too easy to dismiss. 

No one cares how you feel. Your 'feelings' are not a legitimate argument in most cases. 

People are assholes. That's a fact of life. 

Permalink Reply by Holo Gram 7 hours ago

Ha. Ha.

Oh yes, I don't remember much back when I was four years old, but I do remember being attacked by a big white gander at Grandma's house. He should have been turned into gander stew.

And speaking of vegetarians, a long time ago, my future brother-in-law became a vegetarian, at least for a day, maybe.

I grew up on a farm, and butchering cows, pigs, and chickens was second nature to us. My oldest sister was dating a city slicker who'd seen nothing of meet but on grocery store shelves. So she decided to bring him out to the farm to meet the family. Now we just happened to be butchering one steer and two pigs that day, and he was turning green as the guts rolled out into washtubs. "I'll never eat meat again," he moaned.

Unfortunately eating too much meat was what killed him too early. I follow the time-tested tradition where meat is used to flavor food, not as the main course. One to three ounces of meat per meal, once a day, is usually more than enough.

Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia 18 hours ago

 

But chickens and cows are man made animals. What will happen to them if they aren't eaten - should we just let them run free and wild. That would be cruel.

Or would we eat all of the food animals first and then become vegetarian once they've all gone?

How would it work?

 

 

Permalink Reply by Holo Gram 6 hours ago

Many years ago I was in a group taking a tour of an army installation in Germany. They had several big horse retirement barns, where the old, tired military workhorses could live out the rest of their lives in dignity. As we were led up and down every isle of these boring buildings, our guide rattled off the name and pedigree and honors bestowed upon each and every retiree.

Now I'm wondering if today's German horses would be treated with such dignity.

In Germany, horse meat is used e.g. for traditional Sauerbraten, a strongly marinated type of sweet-sour braised meat dish, at least according to the originalRhenish recipe. Other traditional horse meat dishes includes the Swabian Pferderostbraten (like roast-beef) and Bavarian Rosswurst, Ross-Leberkäse andRoss-Kochsalami (popular horse sausage varieties). However, as many people are hesitant to eat horse meat, Sauerbraten and other horse meat specialities are often substituted with beef instead. Horse meat is mainly sold by specialized Pferdemetzgereien (horse butcheries) and mail-order, of which there are about 70 nationwide, i.e. one for circa 1171429 inhabitants. Horse meat, a rather normal source of food in the past, is also occasionally used for steaks, roasts and goulash varieties throughout all parts of Germany, since it is known by gourmets to be by far healthier than beef and pork alike. As prices for prime cut horse meats meant for human consumption are equivalent to that of premium-priced beef, in particular cat and dog breeders and owners value horse meat as a rather cheap resource for lean and healthy pet food.

At the beginning of February 2013, Germany was hit by a horse meat scandal that later widened to an EU-wide scandal. German authorities found mislabeled quantities of beef in frozen lasagna and other food products. Actually, the beef products were made out of horse meat which could be traced down to the Dutch company Draap and Romanian slaughterhouses. Although the detection of horse meat is not seen as food fraud, it is still a food safety issue. Horses used in sports could enter the food supply chain, meaning that the veterinary drug phenylbutazone could harm the consumers’ health. Therefore the EU authorities have decided to agree on a European solution and to speed up the publication process of the European Commission recommendation on labeling the origin of all processed meat.

Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia 6 hours ago

 

I love horses. I've owned a few.

Would I eat one? -

Probably -

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