I'm curious to hear anyone's stance on freewill or determinism. I am well aware it's a never-ending debate. I am torn between the two honestly. However, I lean towards Determinism.
Heisenbergs Principal of Uncertainty keeps me on the fence. I'm not a scientist or intellectual, just interested in the thoughts of others and why.

Thanks!

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I like your avatar! This is a common discussion topic so I am sure people will be determined to use their freewill to join in. I am of the "no free will" camp. Could it be argued that God was our penultimate delusion which left us with only one and that is the delusion of having freewill?

Could be. Consiouness could also be a result of entropy.

Nothing is pre-determined as the future is not written until we pass it. Coincidence, proximity and happenstance explain the serendipity moments of life better than anything 'beyond'.

As a living being with forethought, my free will is only as good as my understanding. We all must keep moving forward and making decisions using the sum total of everything we have ever learned to make each and every decision throughout each and everyday. We have no choice in the matter :)

We could always die and stop making decisions, but that is the worst case scenario.

I agree with that partially, but using the sum of everything we learn; are we free to do that which we have not thought of? Where do our thoughts originate from?
Sorry, I beleive I misread your reply.

Not sure how that would work? I don’t think our mind is a closed system and our consciousness is not moving towards an ordered (low) state.

You could introduce Dan Dennett at this point, early in the discussion.

There is a link to the actual physics article in here. I've read and listened to quite a few of Dennett and Harris on this peticular issue.
Freewill by Harris was a real compelling book.


http://www.sciencealert.com/consciousness-could-be-a-result-of-entr...

There is no strong case that goes either way as it's difficult to prove a negative, especially considering we still live in the stone age when it comes to a theory of mind, consciousness, decision making etc. The arguments made by those who say there is free will is tentative with a couple promising theories but utterly uitterly tentative (speculative is a better word). The case against free will hinges on a few experiments which have questionable controls and have been widely criticised by philosophers of mind and some neuro-scientists...and they are interpreted far beyond the strength of the data gained by such preliminary experiements.

I don't think we are even in a position to lean more towards one side. If you have truly studied as much as you can understand about the topic (my limits came with neuro-physiology and interpretation of visual "qualia", I think most honest thinkers would find a claim for yes and a claim for no are both claims made that go far beyond our knowledge, empirical testing and our extreme ignorance on the topic. It also rests on a extreme take on radical determinism taken as a (how could there be free will?) seemingly negative question rather than a theory or answer.

That being said, there are a few philosophers who have very interesting and even exciting takes on the subject (most are philosophers and neuro-scientists) who go beyond the freewill/determinism dichotomy and they are all well worth the read. They include: Mark Blaguer (an easy read), Raymond Tallis (a moderate read), Daniel Dennet (a challenging read) and Douglas Hoffstadter (a monumental epic read). If you are intersted I'll give you the titles of their best books.

I highly highly highly recommend reading as much as you can on the topic. Few people do...especially those who make bold absolute claims.

This is the last I'll say on this topic because the last time went on for 100 pages and nothing was accomplished.

I am definitely interested in reading more into it. I'd appreciate that, Thanks!
Daniel if you look through the forum history you should find several multi page discussions on this subject - have fun!
I will, Thanks!

Here is the most recent one if you want to refer to it.

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